Keep a copy near by while leveling...

http://wowthinktank.blogspot.com/2008/10/druid-bear-item-list-and-rep-list-for.html

Excellent Link!

I am excited to see that a few T5 items still hold up that far into WotLK. I was a little dissapointed to see arena gear being so viable in PvE though. I have long since regarded arena gear to be charity epics, but that is whole different QQ!

I was a little dissapointed to see arena gear being so viable in PvE though. I have long since regarded arena gear to be charity epics, but that is whole different QQ!


I'm gonna hafta go ahead and disagree with you there, Solar... With S4 (and beyond) there's NOTHING charity about having to get an arena rating for everything (besides the gloves)... getting the appropriate arena rating for each item takes quite an investment...

Yea, S2 gear being available from honor is all fine and dandy, but even the blue PvP stuff at level 80 is going to require an arena rating, i believe.

My beef is it just encourages players to "buy" their rating and earn nothing...and if you have been in the 1300-1800 level of 2v2 & 3v3 it is clear that buyinig a rating is running rampent! You will have a lock in blues and greens running with there full S4 warrior or pally at a rating of 1350...you don't get full S4 with that rating, and your don't do it with random alts in blues. Boo for arena imho.

I know people buy raid runs too, but I would think its much more expensive to buy 24 well geared friends than 1 or 2.

My other gripe is, fine, let arena be arena...keep it the F' out of raiding! There is nothing more frustrating than seeing people stomping around a raid in full PvP gear! The worst part is for Druids, most of the PvP gear is better than PVE for PVE! So maybe the issue is a need for better PVE viable druid gear. (at least for Ferals...not sure about oomkin or resto)

Clearly, I have a distain for Arena and PVP in general, its not my kind of wow. Its unfortunate that some players will grind weeks and months in raids to get that special loot while others can simply arena for 10 games a week, never getting a reagent/flask/repair...etc bill and have equal or better gear.

All in all, I just like to keep my PvP and PvE seperate.

:banghead:

My beef is it just encourages players to "buy" their rating and earn nothing...and if you have been in the 1300-1800 level of 2v2 & 3v3 it is clear that buyinig a rating is running rampent! You will have a lock in blues and greens running with there full S4 warrior or pally at a rating of 1350...you don't get full S4 with that rating, and your don't do it with random alts in blues. Boo for arena imho.


Actually they have fixed that. Each player has their own rating and if they are in a team that team can only compete with teams above a certain rating. At least that is what I understood from Blizzcon.

Actually they have fixed that. Each player has their own rating and if they are in a team that team can only compete with teams above a certain rating. At least that is what I understood from Blizzcon.

That is good to hear!!! I had not heard that, but I don't even attempt to stay current on arena. I am excited that it will be gone for month or so once WotLK hits. Hopefully the new arena is much better thant the old! :deal:

It's been that way for a while. At least since the beginning of S4.

Gear requirements are for Personal Rating, not team rating. So people can't just jump on teams, play 3 games and get credit for that rating. Everyone has to level up personal rating from 1500, so it does take quite a few wins to get a personal rating of 1850, 2000, 2250 etc.

And re: the s4 warrior playing with someone in blues... what if that's his RL friend that started later than him and just hit 70, and they wanted to play together? Or if two people start new teams to help their alts get geared? People don't get mad when a full T6 tank runs a few players in greens through a heroic.

i to detest pvp but have had to do some for the nice epics it gives relatively easily.

so watiing to see if its the same in Wrath. will take a look through that link tlb.

i am expecting to upgrade my gear much more quickly than some given i dont raid and thus its all badge or heroic epics, not Tier gear. (unless T1 and T2 count ;) )

The new rating system introduces a third, hidden rating that will be used to match opponents in arena. This is in addition to the personal and team ratings that are viewable on the Armory.

Gear requirements are for Personal Rating, not team rating. So people can't just jump on teams, play 3 games and get credit for that rating. Everyone has to level up personal rating from 1500, so it does take quite a few wins to get a personal rating of 1850, 2000, 2250 etc.



Well if you average 15 points a match, it would take <25 matches to hit 1850. The problem with the old system is a person with 0 resil gear (and exp) could jump in a 2v2 with a person in full S4 (who has a personal rating of 2k+) and they could grind that "0 exp/skill" player up to 1850+ personal rating in a few hours. And the big differences between a T6 running heroics and arena are 3 fold:

1) The heroic run is not nearly the same quality of gear.
2) The heroic run is not taking advangtage/hurting or at the expense of other players directly (via stomping legitimate arena teams ratings)
3) Players earning their PvE gear via PvP are not learning crucial raiding skills and ettiquette that are important to later game raids.

All in all, it sounds like the third "hidden" rating system is working to eliminate the "bought" personal ratings. So it should be better in the future.

3) Players earning their PvE gear via PvP are not learning crucial raiding skills and ettiquette that are important to later game raids.


U are right. Guys which are at a rating of 1800 because of a pushing S4 char wont have skill in raids either.

But people who worked their way up to high ratings and have pvp-skills, are 100% good pve players.
Cause PvE needs no skill at all.
Just encounter-theory-learning.
I dont know any situation, which would be difficult in PvE to handle. (if everyone in the raid does their little part right)
A PvP-Player is always nr. 1 at adjusting on different situations.

another thing, solar, is that by the time most players would have gotten to 70, they should have already learned proper ettiquette and that PvE is similiar to Arena in that it's a TEAM effort... a decent PvP'er knows that his chances winning agianst 2 players is slim... that's WHY you have a team mate... PvE is a team effort as well, the difference being that our roles in PvE are always more clearly defined, and not nearly as subject to change in a given fight.

Lol,

I just noticed the irony of our debate...me being Alliance, and you two being Horde.

The fundemental difference I have noticed when I PvP (BG's) between Horde and Alliance is that Horde PVP is a team sport, Alliance is usually "every man/druid/child for themselves". That I think is my biggest greif with Alliance BG's is its very rare to see teamwork.

Arena's are different from the teamwork perspective, and I definatley agree that 5v5 takes great teamwork and skill, but 2v2 can easily be handled by one, skilled, geared player. Teamwork is just an added bonus.

I suck eggs at arena...my 2v2 usually went goes 3/7 for the week, but I have solo'd two players while my partner DC'd in the past, just because I am feral and ~300 resil. I bump up against a new team and experience will definatley dominate.

I no longer arena much, but I definatley agree its an excellent addition to WoW, I just want to see better feral gear from PvE encounters. I feel like druids get pigeon holed into PvP in order to stay competitive with gear.

But people who worked their way up to high ratings and have pvp-skills, are 100% good pve players.
Cause PvE needs no skill at all.
Just encounter-theory-learning.
I dont know any situation, which would be difficult in PvE to handle. (if everyone in the raid does their little part right)
A PvP-Player is always nr. 1 at adjusting on different situations.

Absolute Truth. couldn't have attempted to say it better myself Serg.

And Solar, there are good players on Alliance. I got roflstomped in every single battleground (in BG9 mind you, horde usually have an advantage) by ally last night for the 2 hours that I played before I decided it was just not Horde's night, and I was going to go fool around on an alt. It's just a matter of finding out who / where they are. Then I got bored on my alt and hopped on my alliance toons on a different server / battlegroup and got roflstomped by horde all over the place. It's a tossup any given night.

Climbing to 1850 isn't quite as easy as 'lets just win 25 games in a row'. A person wiht 0 resil with a 2k+ toon would get gibbed almost every game, and the 2k+ toon would be stuck solo'ing teams more often than not. (not to mention the hidden matching system, which would have the team with the 2k PR player playing against ~1800's to start)

2v2 can easily be handled by one, skilled, geared player. Teamwork is just an added bonus.

Maybe in the 1300's against people in greens that are just there to tank 10 games and grab their 200 points for the week. Pre 3.0 1v2 was incredibly hard against competent teams without all sorts of ridiculous luck (or the other team to do something realllllly stupid). Don't get me wrong, it's possible and I've done it before too.

After 3.0, well, a ret pally could pretty much solo any team, and arcane mage / rogue teams are instagibbing people, but post 3.0 isn't really arena at all.

That being said, there are a lot of things wrong with arena, which hopefully will be fixed in the expo (though it's not looking good). Namely everything that allows for 45+min games (hunter druid 2's UGH)

Wholly cow!!! 45 mins??? I am stoked to be alive more than like 3 mins in an arean...I suppose that is a testiment to my mad skills! :P

@Solar: Im not Horde... sadly...
Im alliance because 2 RL-friends said: "Uhh dwarfs.. they are so cool... let's play alliance" :-(

About arcane-mages:
Arcane barrage is currently so ****ing imba... 3 sec CD WTF?... it should be at least raised to 8 secs.
A mage has enough things to compensate that (FB, CoC, etc...)

Arcane Barrage is the only thing that makes Arcane mages competitive for DPS with other mages varieties. Personally I love the spell, but I don't PVP.

@Solar: Im not Horde... sadly...
Im alliance because 2 RL-friends said: "Uhh dwarfs.. they are so cool... let's play alliance" :-(

About arcane-mages:
Arcane barrage is currently so ****ing imba... 3 sec CD WTF?... it should be at least raised to 8 secs.
A mage has enough things to compensate that (FB, CoC, etc...)

Lol, that is how I ended up playing Alliance too. I started as a hordie on another server and then a buddy from school had a guild on my current server, so of course I jumped over there...I am torn, I love PVE so Alliance is typically strong in that area.

As for mages, with the exception of PvP, arcane mages are still the ugly step child. They are burst damage machines, which = fail outside of PVP. Even with 80% mana regen while casting I was running out of mana. And the damage just wasn't that impressive. I think my rotation and experience as arcane plays a huge part in that, but I could put out the same or better numbers as frost and have endless mana and crazy increased survivability/utility.