View Full Forums : Are you using Nourish?


Zute
12-15-2008, 04:38 PM
Just hit 80 and have only run a few pre-80 instances. I'm questioning whether or not I'll use Nourish much. It seems like regrowth will out perform it, especially with the crazy crit rate I get on it. Granted, regrowth is 10% more expensive...

How are you using Nourish?

s3Rgio
12-16-2008, 05:32 AM
If all hots are up and regrowth is ticking another 6sec+ i use Nourish. If not i use regrowth with the glyph (+20% heal if regrowth is still running).
Cause if all hots are up Nourish heals a really nice amount.

Zute
12-17-2008, 10:14 AM
You said "all hots"? The spell reads: "Heals a friendly target for 1883 to 2187. Heals for an additional 20% if you have a Rejuvenation, Regrowth, or Lifebloom effect active on the target."

Is the tooltip wrong, it needs to be all hots or just one hot?

Even with an additional 20% that's kind of a paltry amount compared to the direct heal amount of regrowth or healing touch.

I ran my first heroic since hitting 80 and our tank was being absolutely brutalized in CoS when tanking 3-4 elites. My feeling was that Nourish didn't come close to being enough power to help. Maybe to top off a mage but I tend to use Rejuv for that if things aren't too dire.

Resto4Life says:

Nourish is a terrible spell. With the lowest HPS output of any of our spells and among the lowest HPM output (underperformed only by glyphed Healing Touch and only when being used as a tank heal). It’s single saving grace is to acquire 4-piece T7 where it suddenly becomes the most efficient choice for a tank heal, assuming you keep Lifebloom, Rejuvenation, and Regrowth on the target. This has no effect on its abysmal HPS, however.
http://www.resto4life.com/2008/12/15/direct-healing-in-wrath/

Raging Epistaxis
12-17-2008, 11:20 AM
I made it a point this last weekend to use more Nourish, and I have to agree with Phaelia's conclusions quoted above. I'm not that impressed.

It's nice for when I've got everything else ticking away - Rejuv/Regrowth/3xLB - and I've used HT/NS already, and they are still losing health, but then again I still don't have the Regrowth glyph. I suspect that once I locate that glyph I'll go back to hardly ever using Nourish, unless the devs revisit it and give it some love. Or I manage to get the 4-piece T7 bonus.

Yeah, it could happen. Eventually. :/

s3Rgio
12-18-2008, 02:46 AM
In my opinion Nourish is really situational.
It's an option but we can live without it.

Zute
12-18-2008, 11:28 AM
Oh, there's a thread on the forums you all might want to check out. Ghostcrawler responded, defending Nourish. But it seems like most people in the thread think it is pretty useless.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13392161615&sid=1

Zute
12-22-2008, 01:48 PM
Ok, I actually did find it had a place for those times where you're anticipating stuff happening and you want to keep the tank topped off. Like before King Dred does a Grievous Bite. Regrowth is often too big, too long.

But it isn't any help after Grievous Bite. In fact, unless I was precasting a fairly big spell right before GB, or have all my cooldowns, I find it impossible to heal GB.

Slaide
01-02-2009, 11:37 AM
I've had similar problems myself, there are some heroics which are just jokes and then there are a couple H CoS and Gundrak, to name a couple off the top of my head, where the Bosses just hit for like 10K a pop even after the mitigation and forget about the last 5% when they enrage/frenzy. Nourish just doesn't cut it, i have been able to stack my haste rating to about 10-12% and then rolling HoTs and (praying for my Egg trink to proce that 15% haste) i chain cast an un-glyphed Healing Touch, it comes out to be about 2 or 2.2 seconds and i'm not specced for casting reduction on it. I don't use this other then for the last 20% of a bosses hp when things start getting crazy, it works...sometimes. Luckily the Egg trink procs even off ticks from HoTs so it's up alot but it's not really something i love relying on. Apparently Ghostcrawler (on the same thread as posted above) has indicated that they are going to give Nourish a bit more love but i don't see why, i would've personally prefered them to not even give us a lvl 80 heal spell and just enhance what we had. As far as raid healing goes i'm still toping the meters (course, we'll see how that goes once they nerf WG)

Slaide, Druid.

P.S. Does WG really need nerfing?

Zute
01-02-2009, 12:59 PM
I really don't use WG all that much yet but I haven't done much raid healing yet.

Solarflash
01-02-2009, 07:50 PM
WG does need nerfing. I am feral at heart but seem to spend most of my days as Resto to get into 25 mans. With 1500 spell power I can out heal just about any other class I come up against. When things get rough in a raid I just WG every group. That ends up being ~3500-5000 Heals per player using only 5 GCD's.

Which means assuming no haste (which all healers have) 5x 1.5 sec GCD = 7 Secs of casting. Saying WG heals 3.5k is very conservative, but 3.5k x 25 players = 87,500 healing in ~11-12 secs (extra time for last WG to bloom)

87500/12 secs = 7291.66 HPS.

Now rarely, if ever does a situation arise where a healer would do that much healing, but the sheer fact that they could is why its getting nerfed.

In a normal 5-man or even 10-man, healers won't notice any difference in WG use, because its rare that you would use it more than once every 6 secs.

As for Noursih, it was just our consilation prize. Since they gave everyone else more group healing and HoT's, they threw us a bone and gave us a "Flash Heal".

Using it is purely playstyle. I reccomend rolling HoTs and a swiftmend when needed.

Zute
01-03-2009, 11:05 AM
Ok, well I looked at the WWS of our first 25-man Naxx last night. One druid really nailed the healing... he apparently just spammed WG all night. He did 58% of his healing with it.

Funny thing, hardly anyone of 3 druids used Nourish at all.

Oiysters
01-04-2009, 07:29 PM
Nourish is very situational, and is definitely takes a different mindset to use. Never having played a direct healing class, I usually forget I have a Flash Heal-type spell.

Our HoTs are way too inefficient since 3.0 to be able to make up for the lost healing output of WG. Single LB's are no answer, especially as the bloom portion gets credited to the recipient instead of the healer. So we spam Rejuve in between WG's now? OOM city is my guess. I'll have to try it next time I go resto to see. On top of that, GC just posted this weekend that he still thinks mana regen in PvE is too good...:clap:

I think allowing only one healing class to have a spammable AoE heal is going to cause a great deal of long term unhappiness in the healing community. It's true that meters are a terrible measure of effective healing skill, but it is also true that the vast majority of the playerbase don't realize that and there isn't any sort of viable objective alternative measure.

It will take a very bad or very undergeared Shaman to get outperformed on the healing meters post-nerf.

Zute
01-04-2009, 08:15 PM
I thought they were nerfing CoH too.

Oiysters
01-05-2009, 01:22 AM
I thought they were nerfing CoH too.
They are adding a 6 second CD to both WG and CoH. Did I say something that implied otherwise? Sorry if I did.

Solarflash
01-05-2009, 08:10 AM
... On top of that, GC just posted this weekend that he still thinks mana regen in PvE is too good...:clap: ...

Well, don't tell blizzard...but it is! I can run enitre heroics (Hard ones, any of them) without stopping to drink. And, I don't mean the group waits for me to regen. I generally don't even burn my Innervate. And we chain pull.

Druid Regen is sick. Group buffed w/ BoW I sit at about 350 MP5, almost 1k when not casting. I can maintain a 3x LB stack along with Rej, and my mana is full again before its time to refresh. (Those two mixed with occasional WG to top off group will get me through just about all trash in any 5-man content) For bosses I have to occasionally mix in a Regrowth.

tlbj6142
01-05-2009, 08:38 AM
I can maintain a 3x LB stack along with Rej, and my mana is full again before its time to refresh. (Those two mixed with occasional WG to top off group will get me through just about all trash in any 5-man content) For bosses I have to occasionally mix in a Regrowth.As a soon-to-be guild resto, how exactly do you start healing in a trash or boss pull? 3xLB-->rej? Or do you start with Rej? Does it vary with trash vs. bosses?

Slaide
01-05-2009, 09:54 AM
As a soon-to-be guild resto, how exactly do you start healing in a trash or boss pull? 3xLB-->rej? Or do you start with Rej? Does it vary with trash vs. bosses?

i usually go with rejuv +regrowth (usually crits), stacking lifeblooms is another option i guess but if your raiding chances are you've got at least two other healers (in a ten man), why even bother? On boss fights i always keep a 3 stack up on the MT. Its really a preference thing though do whatever you finds works best for you, i know some druids that just maintain a 3 stack on the tank indefinitely even after pull is done.

Solarflash
01-05-2009, 12:55 PM
Do to crazy mana regen, I literally try to maintain 3x LB the entire run...as in NEVER blooms! Its tough to do, but I keep the LB's stacked even in down time. My mana regens faster than the cost of LB, so its actually more efficient to keep it up than to stack 3 once in combat. I Add Rej, and then Regrowth when the tank needs topping off. Also, I favor WG to cleanup splash dmg, so the tank inevitably will get hit with that.

Zute
01-05-2009, 05:14 PM
As a soon-to-be guild resto, how exactly do you start healing in a trash or boss pull? 3xLB-->rej? Or do you start with Rej? Does it vary with trash vs. bosses?
I often have the MT hot'd up before they even pull. Usually they have a rejuv at min running.

Lifebloom is still very good and does a lot of healing. I find there isn't a whole lot that has changed between how I healed in BC and WotLK. Hots mostly, sometimes use Regrowth for a big direct heal. Use HT + NS for emergency, rarely use Nourish. I try to use swiftmend as often as possible. The glyph for it rocks!

Tsumaní
01-05-2009, 05:47 PM
I'm actually pretty fond of nourish. Its like HT-junior. Not quite as much healing, but a lot quicker.

The swiftmend glyph does indeed rock, and turns SM into a great way to top people off when the hots aren't quite keeping up (without consuming any of the hots in the process).

On the MT I usually start with a Rejuv right before they pull, then immediately build a 3stack of LB and keep that up at all times (the LB stack is especially useful if you've got the Idol of Lush Moss which bumps the SP on the hot ticks), and then toss a regrowth on him for good measure. Then just keep em all up.

For most trash pulls, and many bosses as well, I find the hots alone are usually enough for the bulk of the fight. When the bosses pull out their burst dmg special de jour, bringing the tank down to an uncomfortable level, I usually swiftmend followed by a quick nourish if necessary, just to top them off, then let the hots keep doing their thing.

aking sure the hots are already going, or at least being prepared to get them all up as fast as possible is the key if you ask me

Magellan19
01-07-2009, 10:59 AM
OMG Tsumami:

I LOVE YOUR SIG


And, sticking to this thread, I use Nourish about as often as I use Tranquility - very little. Only for a quick fix.

Solarflash
01-07-2009, 11:19 AM
OMG Tsumami:

I LOVE YOUR SIG


And, sticking to this thread, I use Nourish about as often as I use Tranquility - very little. Only for a quick fix.


2nd that....EPIC Sig!

And I don't nourish, unless its an accident and I hit the wrong button. Rej+Swiftmend = more healing, ~ same cast time.

Magellan19
01-09-2009, 01:55 PM
And I don't nourish, unless its an accident and I hit the wrong button.

:p

I did that last night in Heroic UK. I went for Swiftmend and hit Nourish. My tank got down to about 30% before I realized what I'd done.

I promptly separated the two.

/facepalm

tlbj6142
01-09-2009, 03:44 PM
Seems like in the next patch we will see a buff to Nourish (I guess to make folks use it??).

http://www.resto4life.com/2009/01/08/nourish-to-benefit-from-moonglow-and-wild-growth-hot/

...and we learn that Blizzard thinks resto druid can't heal tanks.

Oiysters
01-09-2009, 04:50 PM
It would be an interesting exercise to come up with a build aimed primarily at tank healing in a raid setting. Maybe a good reason to look at a Dreamstate build or an HT build?

Zute
01-10-2009, 11:53 AM
Does HT (talented, etc) even come close to HPS of a full stack of HoTs? And spamming regrowth? Interesting thought exercise.

Solarflash
01-12-2009, 08:01 AM
No chance Zute. HT is a big heal meant for the most dire of situations (unless glyphed). Its slow, expensive and really for my druid only used when macro'd with swifness to make an instant, "Oh Shoot" heal. Or topping off OoC after rezzing a dead teamate.

Zute
01-12-2009, 12:01 PM
That's pretty much what I thought too, Solarflash. When glyphed it seemed more appropriate for PVP than PVE, in my estimation.

Solarflash
01-12-2009, 02:11 PM
Agreed. HT-Glyph is uber in BG pvp. Its not terribly mana efficient ad WG spamming is still probably the best, but good luck trying to killy a tree with that glyph before his boyz eat you alive!

(Glyph of HT = EPIC Flag carrier) Had a RESTO RP walk each of the three flags in WSG a few days ago. Now, he was in some crazy gear and had some OP buddies with him, but it was sick!

Magellan19
02-05-2009, 11:21 AM
I use Nourish about as often as I use Tranquility - very little. Only for a quick fix.

I want to change my answer.

After reading the reviews, I decided to experiment and throw it into my rotation (if and when required).

I like it. A lot.

Zute
02-05-2009, 11:38 AM
I'm really mystified by this one druid in the guild. He outheals all of us with glyphed/talented healing touch. /mystery

Oiysters
02-05-2009, 01:02 PM
I want to change my answer.

After reading the reviews, I decided to experiment and throw it into my rotation (if and when required).

I like it. A lot.
/agree

I'm really mystified by this one druid in the guild. He outheals all of us with glyphed/talented healing touch. /mystery
HoT-stomping for sure. My guess would be that he stacks intel so benefits hugely from Replishment and a very large mana pool.

Direct healing is such a different mindset that even using Nourish was a major adjustment for me. /shudder

Magellan19
02-05-2009, 01:08 PM
Are his overheals off the charts?

I guess the only reason to Glyph HT is if you are going to spam it (may as well use Nourish IMO) but, perhaps he's not using HT as much as you think? Perhaps he's spamming Regrowth (which packs quite a punch).

y friend uses Healbot and loves it. He doesn't overheal and stays on top of the healing charts. That, to me, is a mystery.

And, waaaay off topic (sorry), but during a raid does anyone actually read the combat log, other than to look for something specific?

Raging Epistaxis
02-05-2009, 02:02 PM
I have worked Nourish into my rotation, somewhat. I cast it more than HT, anyway, but that's not saying much.

Now, if I'm lucky and I complete my 4pcT7 bonus this week like I hope to, I can forsee using Nourish more than I do currently.

Last night was our first foray into The Eye, and we were there for about 2 hours. I think I may have cast Nourish a dozen times total.

And no, the only time I look at the combat log is to look to see wtf killed me or the tank, and that not often. I kept it visible for leveling, but in a raid it's too distracting, so it goes away.

Zute
02-05-2009, 05:32 PM
Are his overheals off the charts?
I don't think so. Yeah, Glyphed HT might as well be nourish. I don't know why he uses it. I don't have mana bars turned on in Grid so I can't see if he's running out of mana a bunch or not. I'm going to turn them on again.

And, waaaay off topic (sorry), but during a raid does anyone actually read the combat log, other than to look for something specific?
What you do is run it through a log parser like the one at wowwebstats.com

Here's a sample: http://wowwebstats.com/1tdn1gmc5ggg3

Oh yeah, the HT druid is in this one too.

Magellan19
02-11-2009, 10:54 AM
Overall healing, he's putting out some mighty impressive numbers. And, I have to say that his overheals are fairly average.

If I was a gamblin' gal, I'd put money on the probability that he is strictly healing MT and using Healbot.

Regardless of what he is doing: /kudos

Zute
02-11-2009, 11:08 AM
He's actually doing slightly less tank healing than the other 2 healers. Hmmm...

http://wowwebstats.com/1tdn1gmc5ggg3?whlw

But in this raid it looks like he actually used LB more than HT.

Magellan19
02-11-2009, 12:37 PM
He's actually doing slightly less tank healing than the other 2 healers.


LOL - I didn't even look. /facepalm

Good thing I didn't place that bet. :wink: