I saw on wowinsider they implemented a minipatch today that jumped the threat on swipe by 50%. Sounds pretty godly. was curious what you guys were thinking about this. I saw a previous calculation that on single target Lacerate did more threat until your non-crit swipes could do 550 damage. Currently i'm at 440 noncrits, but that old calculation didn't take into account the new boost in agro from swipe. I'm curios now if swipe might be better even single target at my gear lvl. tried to test it today but dump omen wouldn't read off of an attack dummy

On single-target-tanking you will want lacerate cause of the bleed-effect which boosts your aggro sagnificantly.
aybe change it, that u use lacerate only to maintaine the DoT and swap to swipe^^

Perhaps I am just not seeing the benefit of Lacerate, or swipe.

I typically use swipe to gather initial aggro (x2-3) then on non-bosses, I target each one individually and make sure to get a mangle and a maul up then move on. This strat holds threat far better than spamming swipe (even with the +threat patch). (also magle helps mitigate incoming damage if you are talented in IW)

You should only be using lacerate to keep a bleed up, not as a threat tool itself. Your #1 threat generator is still mangle followed very closely by maul.

In my experience, by the time I get a swipe, mangle, and maul on any non-raid boss elite, I have enough threat to walk away and still hold it till death. Most of our raid DPS are maintaining between 2k-2.5k DPS and I generally end a fight, even multimob fights with the nearest DPS being about 35% threat.

According to Omen my TPS is between 3.7k-4k.

The reason we use swipe/lacerate is because assuming the standard rotation maul-mangle, maul-***,maul-****,maul-mangle you have 2 global cooldowns to blow before you can mangle again. If you wait a another half second, and have I-mangle you can get this down to only 1 global cooldown between mangles i think, but u still end up having to weight a split second, so i'd rather not get full imangle and just blow 2 gcd before mangling again. Now its true we could use barkskin, demo roar, trinket cd to fill these gcds but ecentually you're going to have to use something other than maul mangle. unless you just don't care about using every available attack. currently I'm thinking lacerate only most just good as a RnT buff.

@Solar for example:
U are Naxx 10 and pull 2 groups to bomb (about 10 mobs)
and your DPS wait 2-3 secs to start bombing, then u wont be able to switich through all the mobs before someone gets aggro.

On trashmobs i usually pull, then start swiping and mauling on CD and leave mangle or lacerate out until they are down to 2-3 mobs.

Agreed, on a 10+ pull like that all the mobs are non-elites and aggro, other than initial aggro is almost a moot point. There isn't an aggro ability in the game that can, or should for that matter hold aggro on those mobs. If you are...your DPS needs to step it up. They should be hitting those mobs so hard, so fast that they are down before they can get out of the AoE.

I guess I was alluding to more of the 5-6 elite mobs that say occur often in the Spider wing (normally each tank takes 2-3). Also, I think I misunderstood your point. Lacerate is absolutley a useful tool to keep a bleed up but its not the primary threat tool its just a debuff to aid the primary threat tool. Maul and Mangle still are your bread and butter.

What I am saying is you will be ok if you forget to lacerate in most cases...you forget to Maul and Mangle, you are in for some serious threat issues.

Agreed, on a 10+ pull like that all the mobs are non-elites and aggro, other than initial aggro is almost a moot point.

I'm not talking about non-elites.
I normaly pull 2 groups of elites which are mostly 8-10 mobs
and we burn them down fast.
(Going in with barkskin running and knowing healers are good^^)

lol, I like the way you think! We are just getting started in Naxx-10 so our gear doesn't support that kind of speed yet. Hopefully in a few weeks we can though.

There are nice macroes for when u are using you mouse over the targets and hit a skill like mangle or lacerate. No need to switch from the main target then.

#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover] Lacerate; Lacerate

or replace with mangle etc...

Then I usally have a few swipes in and always keep keep my front towards the raid/group in case some mobs want to beat on the healer or dps..

For Naxx trash I just tell the dps to give me two Swipes before they open up, and like S3rge, I just Maul and Swipe until they are dead. I never lose anything unless the dps is dumb and they focus fire an unmarked mob.

Hmm, so a little more experience, I think i have noticed swipe holding agro a little better. It still not godly for aoe tps, but it was a noticably easier time holding agro on my mage budies. He was usually only able to pull 1 or 2 elites in the large packs with his blizzard, which was probably the result of noncrits or maybe mob parry's.

Using Swipe and Maul with the glyph hitting 2 targets I never lose aggro in AoE situations. Main reason to include lacerates is that they increase the damage of Maul.

aul is the highest damage and threat move, more than mangle is now. In AoE situations especially.

I have seen during heroics, maul accounts for 50-60% of my damage.

I agree with you smart, but there is a enormous difference between threat needed in a 5-man to hold AoE mobs and threat needed in 25-man to hold mobs. Swipe is far better than it ever has been, but it doesn't hold a candle to Pallies or DK's AoE threat generation.

But that is ok, we simply mitigate better than they do, and as a result, both have their place in the raids. Unfortunatley our 10 mans run with a Warrior and Myself. Swipe > Shield Slam means I am stuck with AoE tanking most of the time.

I can't even remember the last time I lost threat to a healer and if DPS pulls, its DPS's problem!

"If the tank dies, it's the healers fault. If the Healer dies, it's the tanks fault. If the DPS dies...Everyone point and laugh at the dumby on the floor, cause it no one else's fault!"