I haven't raided yet since the patch, but I don't think I'm going to mind the cool down. I wasn't ever a WG spammer. Although I think there's going to be one druid in my guild that'll miss it. He always seemed to do about 60% of his healing with it.

Druids that used WG and priests that used CoH as a staple of their healing is exactly who this change was designed to effect.

i used to use it alot until i began training myself aroudn the impending 6 sec cooldown. it still makes up at least 1/4 of my over healing but there is alot of AOE damage in Naxx. Plus since CoH is changed as well i'm probably still going to be using it. i can't see a reason not to use it.

Oh definitely, I'll be using it. I just don't think I'm going to mind the 6 second cooldown. The only time I ever chain cast it was in Loatheb due to a misconception I had over how it worked.

The only time I miss it is when there is raid wide splash damage. It was really nice to be able to hit everyone in just a few seconds.

Also, Loatheb got nerfed...HARD In Naxx-10 last night we healed it with a Disc priest, CoH Priest, and Me (Feral Tank) in healing gear, and had no problem at all. Our Warrior tank took almost no damage from the boss attacks, Shield block absorbed almost all the damage. The only thing we had to clean up was the Doom's.

i was actually wondering about this, we cleared 4 wings in Naxx 10 last night in like 2 hours, Pathwerk doesn't hit hard in 10 man but he didn't seem to be hitting at all. in fact i stopped healing at one point and started Dpsing (woo 1k dps overall as resto!)

Patchy had a huge miss rate on our tanks too! I think they made a boo boo! He missed somthing like 40% on our hateful tank.

Ok, maybe that's what the emergency patch is about. :)

BTW I noticed a huge difference in how the druid's healed in our latest WWS. The dude that was a WG spammer isn't spamming it any more and he's using other heals more now. He's also not #1 healer on the WWS any longer... the guy spamming HT is.

Lol, woot for spam casters!

I still dominated the meters in Naxx-25 as Resto this weekend. The sad thing is, I averaged about 1500 HPS. I used to average 2.5k+ without even blinking. We lost alot of heals, but still can manage. I noticed our priests took a shot. Most didn't break 1k HPS (overall), which is concerning to say the least. We did clear the first two wings, but Patchwerk just rocked us. Obvisouly the top healer having 1500 HPS isn't going to cut it.

I am +2k sp, but I think I just need to re-work my cast order and priorities.

Loatheb was a joke for us...did he get nerfed?

@Solar
I still dont understand why your paladins arent top on the meters Oo

Well, we only run one Holy pally, and perhaps she needs some "fine tuning". She was an absolutley uber healer TBC, so I just assume its class differences, and not player skill, but i don't know.

To be fair, I am in better gear than our pally. She has more tier items than I do, but, I would guess side by side, I have more i213's she is likely in more i200's.

@Solar
I still dont understand why your paladins arent top on the meters Oo

Ther is alot of raid damage and druids have become very good raid healers.

Good point. Even when my sole responsibility is the MT, I almost always throw out 15-20 WG's on the raid throughout the fight, plus randow regrowths/Rejv (particularily on other healers)

He's also not #1 healer on the WWS any longer... the guy spamming HT is.

He certainly should be. Is he healing the tank only?

I can't imagine spamming HT. It would drive me insane. I guess I'm old-school. LB and Rejeuve are my BFF's. :p

He certainly should be. Is he healing the tank only?

I can't imagine spamming HT. It would drive me insane. I guess I'm old-school. LB and Rejeuve are my BFF's. :p
I doubt that was his assignment as he is a newly resto, respec'd from Boomkin.

I wonder if he has glyphed it or something.

Being #1 on WWS is meaningless without seeing:
- target(s)
- overheal
- the fight conditions
- what other healers were doing

Being #1 on WWS is meaningless without seeing:
- target(s)
- overheal
- the fight conditions
- what other healers were doing

Agreed, but...

Regardless how you get to the most healz out put...you have recovered the most damage, and thus sustained the raid "the best". I have this debate with our DPSers all the time. When all is said and done, the person in first place didn't necessarily do the best job, but more often then not, they did!

Ignore HPS/HPM/DPS/DPM...etc. Plain and simple the healer who heals the most, is most benefitial to the raid. On the most macro view of wow, you win by outputting the most damage per encounter, or healing the damage per encounter.

The healer who ends the encounter with 50% more mana but did 5% less healing, in my eyes, did a worse job, then again, I have been accused of being a min/maxer once or twice! :eek:

Know your encounter, know your task, know your enemy, you can't lose!

Ignore HPS/HPM/DPS/DPM...etc. Plain and simple the healer who heals the most, is most benefitial to the raid.

As an raid leader, someone that has and does assign healers in raids, I cannot disagree with this more.

Just because someone tops the meter, what exactly does that mean? Maybe they were healing people they shouldn't have been, maybe they were group healing when it wasn't necessary, whatever the case may be, being #1 DOES NOT equate to being the best. Do YOUR job, not someone elses. I will heal my assignments. If I'm on raid that's what gets healed, if I'm on MT that's what gets healed unless another healer specifically asks for assistance or goes down ( stands in the ouch? LOL ).

Meter chasers in healing is NOT a good thing, the numbers put out can be VERY deceiving b/c it often means that a healer was stepping on someone elses toes, which made them not need to heal as much, which gave them lower healing numbers and makes it seem like a) they aren't doing their job or b) aren't playing to their expected level.

While I never want to see people die, sometimes it's a necessity that people stay on their assignments so that I can see who is lacking what and where, who needs help, etc. This gives a raid leader a MUCH better idea on a players ability and what they can and cannot handle.

Just because someone tops the meter, what exactly does that mean? Maybe they were healing people they shouldn't have been, maybe they were group healing when it wasn't necessary, whatever the case may be, being #1 DOES NOT equate to being the best. Do YOUR job, not someone elses. I will heal my assignments. If I'm on raid that's what gets healed, if I'm on MT that's what gets healed unless another healer specifically asks for assistance or goes down ( stands in the ouch? LOL ).

Meter chasers in healing is NOT a good thing, the numbers put out can be VERY deceiving b/c it often means that a healer was stepping on someone elses toes, which made them not need to heal as much, which gave them lower healing numbers and makes it seem like a) they aren't doing their job or b) aren't playing to their expected level.


I absolutley agree, that being #1 on the meter isn't the end all, be all. But the meter never lies. It has no bias, it has no excuses. It records health being restored in combat. That's the healers job.

1) No damage should not be healed. Plain and simple, topped off raids win more fights. Stuff happens, luck favors the prepared. (patchwerk being the excpetion)

2) If your MT healer is picking up splash dmg and keeping the MT in line, by all means do so, regardless who was assigned to it. I promise, your DPS does the same amount of damage regardless who kept them up. Dead players give no heals, do no damage, and hold no aggro.

3) Do "YOUR JOB" = raid fail. Your job is to help the raid succeed. Your job is to prevent the death of raid members (all of them). I am not saying stop doing your main assignment to help out, but when possible, help.

4) Finally, as a raid leader, I love meter chasers. Why? Because they know their class. They know how to do their job well. They know WoW mechanics. They heal more damage than anyone else, and thats what healers are supposed to do.

People who hide from the meters are far more detrimental to a raid than those who bask in all their glory. I hate hearing how "Healer#1 rocks", but I love the results Healer#1 is producing.

Being #1 on WWS is meaningless without seeing:
- target(s)
- overheal
- the fight conditions
- what other healers were doing
I never said it had meaning, just that it was what it was. I think it probably had meaning to the WG spammer. :p E-peen meaning.

Agreed, but...

Regardless how you get to the most healz out put...you have recovered the most damage, and thus sustained the raid "the best".
Hmmm... I think you're not seeing the bigger picture.

The healer who ends the encounter with 50% more mana but did 5% less healing, in my eyes, did a worse job, then again, I have been accused of being a min/maxer once or twice! :eek:
I don't think min is your problem, it's maxing.

Conversely if you're responsible for primarily healing the MT and you're throwing out WG on the raid, what happens when you run out of mana for the MT and he dies? Sure you got #1 spot on your meter but you wiped the raid.

There's more than just HPS that makes a healer good. You need to heal the right amount at the right time and manage your mana well have enough mana to complete the job. Being a team player and working with the other healers to succeed is what makes a healer good. Everything else is just e-peen stroking, IMHO.

HPS is really only useful if you've got someone who consistently under performs everyone else. Although sometimes it helps to see if someone is over-performing too, maybe they're not sticking to their assignment or they're using wasteful heals and then running out of mana early. Someone like that, I probably wouldn't trust with a vital healing assignment.

Hmmm... I think you're not seeing the bigger picture.

I don't think min is your problem, it's maxing.

Conversely if you're responsible for primarily healing the MT and you're throwing out WG on the raid, what happens when you run out of mana for the MT and he dies? Sure you got #1 spot on your meter but you wiped the raid.

There's more than just HPS that makes a healer good. You need to heal the right amount at the right time and manage your mana well have enough mana to complete the job. Being a team player and working with the other healers to succeed is what makes a healer good. Everything else is just e-peen stroking, IMHO.

HPS is really only useful if you've got someone who consistently under performs everyone else. Although sometimes it helps to see if someone is over-performing too, maybe they're not sticking to their assignment or they're using wasteful heals and then running out of mana early. Someone like that, I probably wouldn't trust with a vital healing assignment.
I would also add that if the healing corps in your raid has mana to burn trying to screw each other on the meters, you should bring fewer healers to the raid and more dps.

I would also add that if the healing corps in your raid has mana to burn trying to screw each other on the meters, you should bring fewer healers to the raid and more dps.

I would love to drop one healer and bring another DPS, but we are simply overstacked in guild with healers atm. I would rather bring an extra healer from guild than PuG in a DPS. I know it sounds crazy, but we seriously have that many healers!

Almost all priests too. :(

@Zute:

My point with the mana vs heals output is exactly the point you are making, except I weight the heals output much higher than mana conserved. My point being that an important part of managing mana is not being afraid to crank it out! Conservative healing scares the crap out of me as a tank. I like to be full all the time! There are sooooo many mana regen options in raids today that there is no need to not go hog wild for most of the fights.

Also, the healers that do go OOM too early show up on the meters...they perform much like a dead DPSer. Useless. I don't like HPS because it measures burst heals. While they are nice, I would equate them to the stereo in a car. Everyone wants the loudest, best one out there...but the car runs perfectly fine with or without it.

I really hate the idea of players performing based on "What if's". What if the main tank dies, what if healer #1 is having a bad day, what if jesus appears from the heavens and commands me not to heal the MT...what if.... You can't base healing style or game play on what if's, there are just too many. I always start an encounter with people performing as if everything goes as planned. "What if, nothing goes wrong!" Yes adjusting has to happen, and compensation for unforseen complications must be made. But I think the meters do a pretty good job showing who did or did not recover well.

Total Heals done, IMHO, is where its at. Again, it tells you which healer is recovering the most damage, and thus sustaining your raid. Certianly not the end all be all, but hands down the most accurate, fact based tool for raid management.

At some point, learning to conserve mana and be efficient and pay attention to healing assignments is going to become necessary. Right now our mana is really, really plentiful but Blizzard is already putting us on warning that this isn't going to always be the case.

However, I think it already is important. You never know when your DPSers are going to mess up and get themselves killed and your 5 minute fight stretches into a much longer one. I've already been struggling for mana in some fights, during the time that our DPSers weren't quite cutting it (they've improved a lot). I know how it feels to be scrapping the bottom of the mana barrel, wondering if you're going to be able to get that next big heal out in time.

Planning for the unforeseen is a good skill to have.
Mana regeneration
We think mana regen is too trivial at the moment in PvE and just right or too difficult in PvP (depending on the class). Now part of that is because the content is easy. Part of it is because we’ve given players a lot of reasons to avoid having to worry about the FSR. Part of it is just generous talents (like Illumination). Part of it was the change to let Int scale regen to some degree. The whole package is something we’re looking at. Mana regen is supposed to be part of the game – you aren’t supposed to graduate out of it with enough gear. (Source) (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/27/14637264068-why-are-priests-considered-a-hybrid-class.html)

I thought WG meant Wintergrasp :) This thread had me confused for a bit.

I wonder if he has glyphed it or something.

Good point. Man, I hate that glyph.

At some point, learning to conserve mana and be efficient and pay attention to healing assignments is going to become necessary.

For a while there (pre-Lich) I swear mana flowed from the skies. Then they turned off the tap....and it was tough for a while. But now, it's not too bad.

But because they took my precious mana away, I've learned to conserve it. So, in the end, IMO it was a good move.

So, for those Druids who can conserve mana AND use Healbot effectively?

......PWN

To me, mana conservation should be part of the game. I mean, it gives us something more to think about than just playing "whack the mole" every night and spamming the same spells over and over.