ok i'm in need of a bit of a change. sorta gone off tanking atm especially with the rubbish, i mean the changes, being proposed around feral for 3.1.

so i'm trying to start getting a reasonable oomkin set for 3.1 (and ofc dual spec so i can still keep a feral one).

so as you know my wow time is basically dailys (rep and cash) and some 5 mans, normals atm cos we seem a little undergeared in heroics - but with the intention to move to heroics asap for rep and loot and emblems.

what talent spec would people recommend given the changes in the last patch or 2 and the forthcoming 3.1 ? ie i cannot perhaps leave out some talents because 'xyz' class would be present in a raid and brings an equivalent or better talent.....

as for gear i've recently got :

Windrippper Legs
Deathchill Cloak

and am getting mats for the Windripper Legs and a Titanium Spellshock neck or (and!) ring.

I'm trying to see what normal 5 mans will give me upgrades (helm is my weakest slot as its a green probably followed by weapon iirc) and get running them.

I'm currently using some Cloth epics as i've got the rep....ie i am Exalted with Knights / Wyrmrest / Kaluak - these have given me epic cloth boots and belt. Nearly exalted with AC.

Rest of my gear is quest reward blues in the main that i've saved and chosen given the feral ones were not as good as my own gear.

I've got some AH BoE chest with a funny name....begins with a 'Y' and maybe something like Physician robe ?

Currently i have about the following (in caster form obviously as i'm not an oomkin atm!)

227 hit
420 spi - on the low side ?
15k ish hp
15k ish mana
10% crit (?)
1190 spell power


I'm assuming this is ok for normals ? but lacking for all heroics.

My problem area is when it says i have 6 i/c mp5 ! not sure on ooc mp5.

No idea what sort of dps I can achieve but looking forward to finding out and comparing myself to the well geared (25 man) mage!

thanks in advance.

Your current in-combat MP5 is bad because you don't have any of the mana regen talents as a Feral.

I, too, have been collecting moonkin gear, but I'd really like to get a good lootrank/pawn scale for such gear, just to get me headed in the right direction.

As well as a good "starter" talent build and glyphs. I know both are undergoing extensive changes in 3.1.

I have been using this lootrank (http://www.lootrank.com/wow/wr.asp?Cla=1024&Max=15&Gem=3&mh=4.6&mp5=1.5&mcr=4.3&spd=4.6&mhit=10&Int=2.6&Spi=0.8&Ver=6&i1=0&i2=0&i3=0&i4=0&i5=0&i7=0&i8=0&i9=0&j1=0&j2=0&j7=0&j8=0&k1=0&k2=0&k3=0&k4=0&k5=0&k6=0) but I don't remember where I found it. Or if it has any real value especially given the 3.1 changes. The above lootrank does point out one of things I hate about lootrank. Gems. While it is true +hit is king, I'd never gem for it unless I wanted the socket bonus or was very close to reaching the hit cap. I wish there were some way to make lootrank do that. It can be done in pawn, but not lootrank.

I do know that the addon, SquawkandAwe is required for moonkins. As it tracks eclipse procs and its internal cooldown. Making it easier to perform your rotation.

I think 80% of this thread (http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t41030-moonkin_guide_dummies/) still applies after 3.1. So, it might be worth looking at...

cheers tlb.

ahha yes glyphs......which ones are the ones to have ?

what would you gem for then if not hit ?

and why not +hit - if you dont hit you dont do DPS

Most of the gear has plenty of hit already on it. So, gem'ing for hit is just overkill. But lootrank doesn't take that into account. It assumes you want to maximize the value of a piece. Well, hit is the #1 stat for moonkins, so it thinks you should gem just about everything with +hit gems. But if you did that you'd have way more +hit than you'd ever need. For us ferals this isn't as much of an issue because +hit (and exp) are very nice stats, but +agi is still king (for both bear and cat in 3.1). Otherwise we'd have the same issue with hit/exp gems in lootrank.

not sure about glyphs, as several new ones are available and old ones are changing. I haven't done much R&D yet.

Not sure about talent specs either for the same reason, several key talents have changed and with the new mana/int/spirit changes in 3.1 im sure comments on existing talents are no longer valid under 3.1 rules.

Until I get a handle on the glyphs/talent spec, I just might go bear/cat as I understand both now and the changes in 3.1 are incremental, whereas picking up moonkin is a huge change (plus I need to fill about 10 gem slots in my moonkin gear using gold I don't have), made worst because many of the existing moonkin write-ups are now out of date due to pending 3.1 changes.

That said, check out the balance links on the www.thedailydruid.com for more up-to-date info.

Ah Boomkin. One of my favorite past times.

To start, hit is very dependent on talents and rotations. I would try to stay +200 for non raiding content (270's for heroics).

Glyphs: My personal favorites are Starfall (refreshes moonfire) Insect Swarm (increases dmg), (See Below)

The third glyph slot is highly debatable depending on your activity.
(1) Moonfire: Reduces the burst dmg of Moonfire, but increases the DOT. This is great for longer encounters (especially w/ the Starfire glyph). With non-raid setting, I would probably stay away from this one, as the burst is going to give you better returns.
(2) Wrath: Reduces the pushback of dmg. In a group setting you should not be taking damage.
(3) Innervate: Allows you to have full regen while casting if cast on another, or increase the spirit regen by an additional some% (20% I think) if cast on yourself. This is my reccomendation In most cases I don't ever use my innervate, but when I do, I am glad I have it glyphed.
(4) Starfall: Adds a tick or two to the legnth of your starfall. This is a nice DPS boost if you are in an AoE crazy setting.

GEAR

Since you don't raid, but seem to be a wealthy little druid, I would reccomend that you pickup some of the crafted epics and BOE's from other folks who do raid. Expect for crafted T7 items to run between 750-1500g, while your T7.5 BoE typically run 1500-2500g each slot on our server. Don't be afraid to be a cross dressing boomkin either. There are lots of clothy items that suit boomkins quite well.


On side note, you didn't list your "Haste". Haste is one of the most important stats for Boomkin DPS. Because your #1 spell is Starfire (slow cast) haste is very beneficial. 10% crit in the tool tips is probably closer to 25%-35% shifted and casting (many talents increase crit)

I am actually in OOmkin gear and raid spec atm, if you'd like to inspect. I will likely be bear again by weds though. Note, I have way too much hit, and not nearly enough haste atm. Boomkin is kind of just a side hobby, so I don't really farm gear for it, but rather just take the scraps thrown my way in raid if no one else wants. Redox, below me is more what a boomkin should probably look like. Note his crit is about 50% better than mine. (He's about a 4k boomkin in our guild)
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarion+Circle&n=Solarflash
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Cenarion+Circle&n=Redox

cheers - a quick post for now - will read above in depth in a bit as in a rush.

am tempted with :

Boots of Septic Wounds - 2k AH
Ebonweave Robe (cloth is it worth it?) - 1450g

thanks guys.

hehe Solar - just read your post and shows we thinking along the same lines givne my above post about the Ebonweave.

Lol Solar - wealthy little druid indeed ! lol. spent a couple k or so in past 2 days !

plus i'm a cross dresser atm using cloth belt and boots. i figure its it epic and i cant get it elsewhere as non raider then i'll go for it. i'm assuming the main stat i will lose is Armour ?

Saw a Chain of Latent Energies on the AH earlier - tempting.

Haste is listed as : 233. (good / bad ?)

is t7 ilvl 200 and t7.5 ilvl 213 ?

Boy, I wasn't ever a "Non-Raiding" boomkin, as I just started boomkin spec after being handed some caster drops when no one else wanted them in raid. So, take my "non-raiding" expectations with a grain of salt.

As for entry level raiding, 233 seems about right, I think most raiding boomking sit around 300-400 haste. Its a pretty easy stat to come by in raid gear.

Yes, T7 = ilvl 200, T7.5 = ilvl 213

Also, the only stat you lose with cloth vs leather is armor. Typically your leather pieces are just better itemized for boomkins (since that is their purpose) however, if you intend to make your boomkin set a hybrid with a Resto set, then cloth generally has a more favorable itemization (more spirit on DPS gear)

As for the Latent energies...I had it until I completed the EoE-10 man quest, and that was after lots of 25-man raiding, so it holds up for a long time! If you can part with the gold, its a nice piece of equipment.

cheers Solar.

well if 233 is for entry level raiding, ie 10/25 mans then i;m ok cos wont be doing that !!

i will look at mats for epic cloth and decide. i guess once i do heroics be some nice leather oomkin drops...

i will see how my bank balance is doing for the AH items :

Chain of Latent Energies
Boots of Septic Wounds

plus mats for a couple more items :)

i'm not really looking to be hybrid oomkin/resto tbh. dont like healing. want to do dps !

Damn - i forgot to check you out Solar so i guess you maybe back in bear by the time i get to check this evening :(

i think i'll do a respec tonite as i have some baby free time so hoping to run a couple of normals/heroics.

i'll just look to choose talents that i feel will increase my dps in a 5 man scenario whilst also helping mana regen or haste ?

Damn - i forgot to check you out Solar so i guess you maybe back in bear by the time i get to check this evening :(



I am still boomkin. I did not get to WoW at all yesterday, so no Bear until tonight!

Hope your search is going well.

great, i'll take a look later at your gear and talents.

then i'll look to do a quick respec and pick up some glyphs.

maybe a mad spree in the AH to for the boots and chain it its still there.

Good write-up on 3.1 talent specs...

http://moonkin.info/patch-31-pve-moonkin-build/

The site contains lots of other good moonkin info as well (pun intended).

cheers tlb

well i splashed out last nite and am now a Chain of Latent Energies owning oomkin !

gotta decide now if/when i'm suitably geared to respec for running heroics.....

we did Nexus last nite - my first full clear of any heroic ! lol. but i stayed feral and did kitty dps cos its simply easier to let some OP DK aoe everything and keep aggro with apparent ease /sigh

i wanna go oomkin for tonite but not sure i'm ready for heroics, esp as my experience of being an oomkin is almost zero!

well i've respecced.

well i've respecced.But, do you have respec?

prob not ! :p

you can view me on the armoury....

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bronze+Dragonflight&n=Kheldar

looked at a couple of specs including the links Solar provided iirc....decided on this build as a test...

ty in anticipation.

I gonna try this build (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5032003125331303213305301030000000000000000 000000000000000205003312000000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9704) in 3.1. I might move 3/3 Celestial Focus into 3/3 Dreamstate if mana becomes an issue on boss fights. My build is a bit more boss focused as I didn't take 2/2 Gail Winds or 1/1 Starfall. I don't see my moonkin spec being used all that often except in 25-man and occasionally in 10-man. So, I want to focus on boss talents more than trash talents.

Note: Several of the talents will change in 3.1

Kheldar, since you are a 5-man only player, I doubt mana will be much of an issue in 5-mans (use innervate on yourself [glyph'd if you want] and/or a potion for boss fights), I wonder if you shouldn't drop 3/3 DS, 1/3 iMF and 3/3 Eclipse (5-man boss fights are too short to really benefit from the RNG nature of Eclipse) and pick up some more DPS talents. Like this build (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5032003125331303213305001231000000000000000 000000000000000205003312000000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9704). That seems like a great 5-man build. Typhoon is more of a PvP talent (and knock backs are fricken' annoying in PvE), but if you want it you could drop a point out of something....

For boss fights you just might be able to get away with wrath spam which makes your rotation stupid easy. IS, iFF, MF, Wrath. Refresh IS/MF as needed. FF now lasts 5min so there is no need to refresh it.

You might even want to drop down to 1/3 Moonglow and pickup 2/2 iMF??? But that seems sort of silly if you take MF glyph.

cheers tlb.

i was not sure about Dreamstate or Typhoon. it was more a case of my gear atin amazing, my spirit aint amazing and my mp5 aint amazing so DS looked useful.

Typhoon seems fun for a point ! i guess more points to max Wrath of Cenarius would have been a good idea.

yep re-looking at the talents Celestial Focus for the haste owuld have been good - i was not bothered about having Starfire stun anything when deciding on this build (rather quickly) last nite !

oh well i better get some glyphs and then stick with it for a while before going back to feral - it all depends on how i find doing dailys and how long before 3.1 comes out so i can dual spec.

Typhoon any use for aoe damage if u glyph it so its less mana and not the knockback for pve 5 mans ?

i still find it so hard on multi mobs. 2 is ok but if i am facing 3 i tend to have to run away currently :(

feral i just ploughed on through 4/5/6 using cat and bear as needed.

i still find it so hard on multi mobs. 2 is ok but if i am facing 3 i tend to have to run away currently I have a co-worker that also plays a druid. He, too, complained about this issue with playing a moonkin. And that he loves feral for the same reason (though he is primarily a resto for raiding work). What I just can't understand is how does this happen? I can count the number of times on one hand (well, maybe 3 hands) that I had to deal with 3+ mobs in my entire life as a Druid. And when it happens, I typically run away. Guess I don't have the patience to play like a pally.

So, are you collected more than 3 mobs on purpose? Or does this just happen? I know my co-worker loves to play (quest) that way, but I find it oh so annoyingly slow. He claims it is faster....

Typhoon any use for aoe damage if u glyph it so its less mana and not the knockback for pve 5 mans ?Is there a glyph to remove the knockback? if so, I can see why you'd take it. As I'm sure it does nice DPS.

Is there a glyph to remove the knockback? if so, I can see why you'd take it. As I'm sure it does nice DPS.

Yep.
There is a glyph that removes knockback:
Glyph of Typhoon
Use: Reduces the cost of your Typhoon spell by 8%, but it no longer knocks enemies back.

So, are you collected more than 3 mobs on purpose? Or does this just happen? I know my co-worker loves to play (quest) that way, but I find it oh so annoyingly slow. He claims it is faster....
no i never try to collect more than 1/2 in oomkin.

i was fighting 2 and neglected to see a patrolling Blight Falconer. so i ended up with 3.


Is there a glyph to remove the knockback? if so, I can see why you'd take it. As I'm sure it does nice DPS.
yeah the typhoon ones gets ride of knockback as s3R posted.

i can see i'll be back feral later today ! lol

with boomkin multi mob grinding i find i can take on about 5/6 mobs at the same time some times 7. here is my method:

start with Regrowth, lifebloom stacked x3, rejuv. once all these are ticking away i pull the mobs with IS and MF once they are all on me i hit starfall, Barkskin then hurricane. if they ar still not dead after this i hit typhoon.

this has proved quite effective as i have full health at the end of each encounter, mana about half way down so i just take a few solo mobs while it regens and also waiting for cooldown on barkskin

when starfall is on CD i pull 4 mobs and use the same method.

i leveled reasonably quickly doing this and find it great for skinning too.

we are not the best class for multi mob but we are quite effective.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Frostwhisper&n=Shumblechops

Glyph of Typhoon
Use: Reduces the cost of your Typhoon spell by 8%, but it no longer knocks enemies back.And it is minor glyph, so you don't waste a major to get this neat-feature...

if you glyth typhoon though just remember you loose the most satisfying skill in the whole game imo:

knocking enemy players off the edge of cliffs in pvp.

every time i do this it create a massive smile on my face:biggrin:

i do it in eye of the storm in at the flag and in arathi basin at the lumber mill :)

also when you see the opposite faction flying about remove all your amour fly upto them and hit them with typhoon as it makes them dismount lol (have a nice trip)

:whistle:

here i found a vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hhiy-su9oo

heres one dismounting lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f45maTGY-gw

also when you see the opposite faction flying about remove all your amour fly upto them and hit them with typhoon as it makes them dismount lol (have a nice trip)

i think i just found my second spec and possibly most favorite past-time lol

also when you see the opposite faction flying about remove all your amour fly upto them and hit them with typhoon as it makes them dismount lol (have a nice trip)


And the best part, depending on altitude, you can reshift into flight form before you both splat!

There's a chance I've used it to slap a hordie or two off a node/herb too! (SP is the best, flying off random cliffs. Even if they survive, the resource is gone and I am on my way by the time they mount up and come back for more!)

Indeed - before you go and remove the typhoon knockback... give it a few days in court, because although in a heroic/raid environment, I would often love to remove this (simply as an occasional DPS boost that doesn't piss off the tank), I use this SO frequently outside of raids, specifically for the knockback. Its a blast.

More than anything else, I think its important to give yourself time to get used to the differences in the spec's dynamics.

I levelled 1-80 as feral, then was asked to go boom/heals by my guild. The first few times I tried both caster specs, I freaking HATED it. Felt very vulnerable, and multi-mob encounters made me want to give up.

Few months later, I'm hopelessly addicted to the power of the kaboomkin. Just took some time to get used to it (and collect the right gear of course). Multi-mobs are a breeze with your arsenal (nature's grasp, barkskin, typhoon, hurricane, etc), but it does take a while to get used to it. At first, I just couldn't stand the fact that I was getting pounded on, while my toon was standing there waving his hands... it just FELT wrong - was used to kitty/bear pounding the crap outta em, never standing still. lol

Not sure if looking at my spec or gear would be of any help at all - am very much a 25's raid chicken - but you're welcome to look and take from it what you will. (click name in signature)

Happy gwawking!

Not sure if looking at my spec or gear would be of any help at all - am very much a 25's raid chicken - but you're welcome to look and take from it what you will.Interesting, no mana regen talents. I will like to see what you end up with after 3.1. I read a blue post (from GC) that basically said he assumes all chickens/trees will have intensity. Wonder if that will prove to be true...

Yep, there are a lot of big mana-related changes coming in 3.1 (for both caster dps and healing classes). At the moment, especially with full raid buffs, I never go OOM except when we're tearing through large crowds of trash mobs and I'm hurricaning left and right. Ghostcrawler made some comments about wanting to make sure that mana is always a concern, so they'll be tweaking some things, basically forcing any caster druid to take full intensity... which in itself, seems odd to me - why would you ever force the selection of a specific talent... If you can't do without it, its not really a "talent" anymore, but really just a prerequisite. Somebody somewhere made the joke that in 3.1, Moonkin form will be part of the Restoration tree, with a prerequisite of 3/3 Intensity. (I'd laugh... but don't really find it that funny... heh)

In 5-mans, I do occasionally have to deal with mana issues even when just using my regular rotation, but my whole setup is done with 25's in mind. (yes, even the typhoon and gale winds, starfall, etc...) This is about my 15th stab at raid spec, and (at least under the current system) this is what works best for me.

Also, for a lot of great info regarding Moonkin in general, check out Graylo's blog (http://graymatterwow.blogspot.com/). His math is impeccable.

basically forcing any caster druid to take full intensity... which in itself, seems odd to me - why would you ever force the selection of a specific talent... If you can't do without it, its not really a "talent" anymore, but really just a prerequisite. You have to take OoC, KotJ, SA, etc. if you want to be a good kitty DPS'r. And you have to take SotF, TH, PotP, etc. if you want to be a good bear. I see no difference.

The problem is well geared moonkins have gotten use to having way too much mana and now they will (supposedly) have to worry about it more. You don't have to take intensity, just like you don't have to take SotF as a bear, but you'd be stupid not to. Though you do have some other options (like Dreamstate, glyph'd innervate, etc.), or a bear could stack +def rather than taking SotF.

You just have to make a choice, pre-3.1 you could choose nothing because mana regen was OP.

Cheers Over. i better check your gear as you maybe rather more epic than my cobbled together non raiding set oomkin gear !

i'm seriously thinking about going back to feral tonite. its just so slow doing some dailys.

I now seem unable to do the Sons thrusting the spear quest and gave up last nite after dying 3 times.

But the absolute pits of a daily quest is now the Abomination one in IceCrown where you take control of an abomination and use it to kill 15 of 3 types of mob. In feral i used to HOT myself up, put the abomination on passive, go kitty, run into the mobs with abomination following, hit barkskin, pull a ton of them and then explode him.

usually can complete the quest with 2 or maybe 3 abominations.

In oomkin if i now go feral and do the above i'm continually getting dazed ?? so i've missed something somewhere that gave me the ability to not be dazed from the feral talents ???? But i've not worked out what yet ????

so now its send the abomination in and let it get a few mobs and then explode it. i find its taking like 6 or 7 now to kill the 45 mobs :(

i have to say i like oomkin - but as my only spec its a pita. i'm hoping we're going to run a 5 man tonite - not been able to for a few days now due to RL etc

i want to try it out in 5 mans - either a normal or a heroic and see if its fun and what sorta dps i dish out versus a naax/os 25 man geared mage - he pulls 2k dps according to my Recount.

i seem to be ok on mana regen for doing dailys. i just have to remember that i now should carry a bit of water and i do need to get someone to make me some +58 spellpower pots and/or the +45 int ones.

when dual spec comes along i'll be definitely having an oomkin spec but for the moment i think i need my kitty and bear back.

2 items in the AH i'm considering :

Mantle of the Eternal Sentinel
Boots of the Septic Wounds

hoping a world drop epic ring i got a couple days ago sells to let me buy 1 of these.....

Edit : hmm where did all the other posts here suddenly come from after i clicked post !

Thanks Tsu - i'll check out your spec but as you say if your 25 man geared then i know i'm never going to be able to get most of your gear. hence mine is cobbled togther with some cloth items from rep, plus crafted, plus AH bought. hence my interest in the 2 items above. but 5k ish for the pair !

Yeah i'm the same Tsu - feral since day 1 of wow and going oomkin now feels like i'm lvl 30 or something again lvl 80 mobs !

hmm sorry - this has become a bit of an epic post ! hope you managed to read it all and get this far :) thanks !

Nah, you're right of course. Even I admit that having zero mana talents and never going OOM = broken (to a certain extent). But will miss never having to worry about it. :D

I actually don't mind that they're tweaking mana - it should be done. One thing I don't like is some of the proposed itemization on the T8 pieces - totally forcing us to sacrifice crit left and right for tons of spirit (supposedly to adjust for the impending mana changes), even though for a boomkin, crit is actually a better mana generator than spirit. Doing that on some of the pieces makes sense, but its almost across the board at this point. But hopefully they'll make some tweaks to those stats before the patch goes live. We'll see

.....
2 items in the AH i'm considering :

Mantle of the Eternal Sentinel
Boots of the Septic Wounds

hoping a world drop epic ring i got a couple days ago sells to let me buy 1 of these.....


Hopefully you get enough money out of that ring.
Or you will NEVER be able to affort the other 2. :bonk:

As for the feral boomkin thingy:
Kheldar just wait until 3.1 for a desicion of spec.
Kitty gets a WTF-PAWNAGE-BUFF in dps.
I wouldnt turn away right now from your feral-live. ;)

Nah, you're right of course. Even I admit that having zero mana talents and never going OOM = broken (to a certain extent). But will miss never having to worry about it. :D


Oh god... maybe pots will be needet again!!!! :vaseplus:

oh and to add to my big post above i think atm i'm looking at these sorta stats - i think probably self buffed :

16hp
15k mana
166 hit
323 haste
16.6% crit
1441 spell power
380 mp5 ooc approx
180 mp5 ic approx

Damage and crits are quite nice, 7.8k starfire and around 3.5k wrath ? which seem good to me at my gear level. mobs die quite fast. i can see the benefit of haste now and want more !

starfire casts in 2.65 sec and wrath in 1.33.

not sure i see the benefit of the talent that puts a moon symbol over my head now and then and adds damage to wrath or starfire for 12 seconds ? i think someone mentioned this already...

anyways thanks for help and comments and this and my epic post above :)

not sure i see the benefit of the talent that puts a moon symbol over my head now and then and adds damage to wrath or starfire for 12 seconds ? i think someone mentioned this already...


This is the most damage-pushing thing u can have as an moonkin. Don't have the link to a nice explanation-post right now, but i will search for it at home!

This is the most damage-pushing thing u can have as an moonkin. Don't have the link to a nice explanation-post right now, but i will search for it at home!
it was in an earlier post from tlb s3R that talked about me not really requiring the moon think talent.....

Kheldar, since you are a 5-man only player, I doubt mana will be much of an issue in 5-mans (use innervate on yourself [glyph'd if you want] and/or a potion for boss fights), I wonder if you shouldn't drop 3/3 DS, 1/3 iMF and 3/3 Eclipse (5-man boss fights are too short to really benefit from the RNG nature of Eclipse) and pick up some more DPS talents.

btw is the 5 min FF a now or a coming in patch 3.1 ?

my little bit of oomkin so far doing daily's solo certainly says to me forget this talent...Eclipse. by the time i realise its proc'd and which one had proc'd i've killed the mob and its run out before i move ont the next mob !! ;)

5 mans maybe a little different....

Just to clarify my comment, Eclipse has a 30s(?) cooldown and most 5-man boss fights barely last 2min (if that). And given that you are not guaranteed to even proc eclipse when it is off cooldown (the RNG portion of eclipse that many moonkins dislike), maybe it makes more sense to pick up other DPS talents rather than eclipse.

Now for raiding, eclipse is great as the boss fights are long enough that you can benefit fully from eclipse. I just wonder if it provides all that much benefit in 5-man content where you could get 4 procs or none during a boss fight. Though most likely you'll get 1-2. Do those 1-2 eclipse procs provide enough dps to overcome other DPS talents? Or for that mater, does it provide enough DPS over other talents to make it worth "watching" for the proc vs having a simple rotation (SF spam and/or Wrath spam)??


5 min FF is in 3.1.

For boomkin raiding, eclipse is not only great, but essential.

For your non-raiding purposes... Even with the internal cooldown I personally think eclipse will be worth it. When I first went chicken, I admit that I skipped it after hearing a lot of whining about cooldowns and not wanting to "deal with it"... and then researched even more, reconsidered, and noticed a pretty significant bump in DPS when I finally took the plunge and added it (even in simple 5-mans)

If you're only taking on one mob at a time, with big gaps of time between all kills - ALL THE TIME - then yeah, perhaps you won't actually reap its benefits all that often (you're likely to proc it at the end of a mob's life, and by the time you get to the next mob, the proc is over and you have to wait for the cooldown to pass). But this isn't how the game goes for anybody really (not ALL THE TIME at least). If you proc eclipse on a mob who's about to die, you get the benefits on the next mob. And I can't remember EVER having a boss fight, even in super-quick Heroics where we melt the boss much faster than your average team, where eclipse didn't proc.

Also remember there are two types of eclipse, depending on what procs it. You can adjust your attempts at proccing the type of eclipse that will do you the most good, according to the situation.

Eclipse (and its RNG factor) is one of the things that makes Boomkin one of the more complicated class specs in the entire game. Its not a cut-and-dry rotation. But without eclipse, you'll never get the most out of your chicken... in my humble opinion.

But for the love of god, if you do add eclipse, get the Squawk-and-Awe addon to track your cooldowns (also serves as DOT/FF timer - great addon for boomers)

You'll also see some debate out there on the value of Gale Winds. Get it. In your 5-mans, Hurricane will be one of your biggest strengths for clearing out the trash. (and seeing your DPS jump up to 5-8k on a densely packed crowd of trash is just a fun)

You'll also see some debate out there on the value of Gale Winds. Get it. In your 5-mans, Hurricane will be one of your biggest strengths for clearing out the trash.Thanks for the update. For, 3.1, I always get to this spec (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5032003125031303213305300030000000000000000 000000000000000205003312000000000000000000&glyph=000000000000&version=9722) and don't know where to put the last 4 points.

3/3 CF for the 3% haste??
1/1 Starfall for trash?
1/1 Force of Nature for boss soft enrage timers?
2/2 Gale Winds for uber trash DPS?
1/1 Glyph'd Typhoon for trash??? (I don't care about PvP and I play on a PvE server)

Thoughts? Unlike Kheldar, my focus is on 10/25-man raid content when I'm not being used as a tank.

Does FoN do nice DPS? Do I use it before or after bloodlust has been pop'd?

Man... adjusting for mana issues is going to be very hard for me. Almost all of these options are essential in my current playstyle. lol

3/3 CF is arguably your overall best bet for increase in sustained DPS (especially in a long raid environment). All the other options... really just a question of personal preference and where you fit in your group's dynamic if you ask me.

FoN actually does quite impressive damage - especially when you use it as often as possible. The downside is the long cooldown, which at least for me, makes me more likely to forget to pop them. In scenarios where you want strict control over aggro, I'd go with 3/3 CF and FoN. The treants are an aggro-no-brainer, they wail on one target at a time, as opposed to Starfall/Typhoon/Hurric which do run the risk of drawing unwanted aggro (especially starfall). But if you're running with an uber-threat-master, then typhoon (glyphed or no) or starfall would also be good options.

Our primary tank has disgusting threat. Disgusting. So especially on boss fights, I'm popping absolutely everything. Treants, Starfall, then the standard dot>wrath>SFeclipse rotation. The advantage of having starfall in the mix is that its an instant cast, and it continues to deal damage while you've moved on to other things (much like the treants). having both can be a great boost to your boss damage (but its a significant point investment)

Alternatively though... depending on the layout/concentration of trash mobs in Ulduar... Gale Winds could actually out perform all of the above. Like I said, for me, hurricane with GW is a huge part of my overall damage. (especially in Naxx where the trash is a plenty - in some 5-mans where it isn't called for, it is not used as much). So if there are a lot of high-density mobs in Uld, and you want to be trash MASTA, definitely go with GW.

Tough choices. Otherwise, solid spec if you ask me

Edit : why does it always do this to me ! i click on this thread in the opening list of forums and it does not put to the last post so i'm replying merrily to a post from tlb, not realsiing until after i click post that there are more posts to read first /doh

well we never got to run a 5 man last nite :( but should do tonite.

i do think eclipse is going to be a so so talent for 5 mans tbh. but i'll need to work out what to replace it with to provide a dps increase.

i dont find eclipse procs that much so i guess maybe a 30s CD is correct.

i just need to do a few 5 mans to see my viability at my gear (and skill ;) ) level.

what is the RNG factor ?

i wanted some aeo ability and it was one of my reasons for going oomkin so i like Hurricane / Gale Winds / Starfall and want to keep them all - i'm also of the opinion that to not get a top tier 51 point talent is just a wasted opportunity after putting a ton of points into a particular tree ! I also like the + haste from the CF talent as i can soooo see the benefit of haste - its actually a reason to currently keep my cloth boots with haste and not spend 2k on the leather ones on the AH!

Ahha FoN - i always forget to use em :( even when i'm in trouble having managed to pull an extra mob or 2 ! i know practice will help as oomkin so i'm sticking with it til i can run 4-5 5 mans to get a taste of its viability for me.

i'll check out Squawk and Awe later Tsu.

i still find oomkin hopelessly slow, inefficient and quite painful for doing daily's.

i guess i just have to get more used to getting hit and taking it, at the same time as dishing it out....versus a mage who could not go toe to toe with mobs and live that easily.

what's a good armour value for an oomkin in oomkin form ?

currently i think i'm around 14k ish....i seem to remember i get a reduction of 48.50% of damage due to my armour. obviously atm i'm losing some of this as i do have a couple of epic cloth items equipped. more of a problem for solo stuff that 5 mans where i'd hope to not be taking melee damage from a mob.

i still find oomkin hopelessly slow, inefficient and quite painful for doing daily's.

Honestly, once your gear improves into the full i200+ range, you will find Boomkin is actually the most effecient Solo spec. Rarely do I kill less than 4 Mobs at a crack and I never sit to mana up. On occasion I innervate myself, but mana regen with DS, Intensity and OoC = unlimited mana. I strongly reccomend you spec into all these mana talents if you are not raiding. In 25 man, the group buffs keep your mana topped off atm, but in 5-10 man, it becomes more important to recoupe mana yourself.

what's a good armour value for an oomkin in oomkin form ?

I think I sit around 18k ish. Armor really doesn't mean all that much. Once your crit gets up, you will find that very few mobs get close enough to do anything to you anyways (at least one on one). If you are AoEing mobs down solo, you should be popping Barkskin and just dumping Hurricane overtop of yourself = instant win! (and another great reason for Gail Winds)

Cheers Solal - hopefully if i can start running some 5 mans regularly i'll improve to i200 lvl soon.

I've got 3/3 DS from memory and OoC but not sure about intensity.

Yeah i tried hurricane on myself when i managed to pull 3 mobs last nite. it did seem quite nice :)

Yes my crit is a bit low atm, and i really want to see an improvement in my haste for faster casting to stop mobs getting to me !

I need to start getting some pots made as well....

i'm looking at the +58 spellpower and/or the +45 intellect.

These ok for what I do or would you recommend anything else ? Any pot for haste ?

Elixir of Lightning Speed gives +45 Haste Rating for an hour (or if you have Mixology...2 hrs :D )

See your local Elixir Master for more info...Believe the mats are Imbued Vial, Deadnettle, and Crystalized Life. (Don't quote me, I could very easily be wrong)

As moonkin i would not go for the +45 Haste Rating elixir
unless:
- You are hit-capped
- you have enough crit
- you have enough spellpower

And combine a battle-elixir with the 45 INT guardian-elixir.

yeah Des i found that one available on my pot maker :)

I got him to make me some :

+58 spell power - battle
+45 haste - battle
+45 int - battle ?
+25mp5 - guardian

and i bought some food from the AH that added more +haste and Stam.

So what would you go for then s3R as a Battle Elixir ?

I'm sure you can never have enough spellpower or crit ;)

I'm certainly not hit capped - only 166 irrc. so i could use a Elixir of Accuracy ?

I just like haste ! with the pot and food buff I had 398 haste raiting.....

Ok last nite i finally got to do 2 5 mans - both normals. HoL and Nexus (3 manned!)

I had fun. it was nice to stand back and do ranged dps for a change after being a tank for all my wow career and a bit of kitty.

I enjoyed whacking out 7k+ Starfire crits. My guildie DK whose taken over tanking from me seems to just put out amazing aoe threat (nerf dk's!) even though his gear is not that good - he says its better dps gear and he needs to get a proper tanking set !!!

Hurricane was muchos fun. it seemed to do a lot of damage. I tried to see the eclispe proc and make use of it - not so easy on trash but worked ok for the bosses.

Was much tougher in Nexus as we were only 3 guildies and the dk tank brought his 74 holy priest and the other guildie left his holp pally behind and brought his 80 DK, but he has never tanked and his gear is poor. The last boss there with that debuff is interesting when trying to cast SF ;)

I kept pull aggro from him so had to be careful. Overall i enjoyed it.

Plus i sold my epic world drop Edward Odd ring for 2.5k so i'm now in the market for more oomkin epics....the boots and shoulders i've mentioned :)

For dps monitoring i use Recount. I was a little disappointed with my dps for the 2 runs. Basically i was doing about 1100-1300 dps.

Now that maybe fine for my gear and i just want to do more ! or it maybe down to my oomkin n00bness!

Is Hurricane a good spell in the rotation for dps or was that hurting my dps overall - but i just enjoyed casting it :p Otherwise i was doing the more usual IS / MF / Wrath / SF.

Oh and Tsu - i cant find Squawk and Awe ? Not on wowmatrix or curse.com ?

oh and note to self *dont try to tank in oomkin gear when lag caused the tank to die, cos i'm so squishy now i lasted a few seconds ! lol *

HIT is really important for your damage-output.
No other stat is so beneficial for your damage.

INT = guardian elixir (see my last post).

the combination i would go with:
- 45 INT guardian
- 45 HIT battle

@Kheldar
Just think about it. Whats better for your damage.
Not missing a 7-9k starfire or letting your starfire cast in 2.4 sec? :wink:

I was just excited because I just learned it. go go gadget NRAR!

HIT is really important for your damage-output.
No other stat is so beneficial for your damage.While you need hit (263 against a raid boss assuming you have iFF), you will need less since you are only playing against 5-man bosses. How much less? I don't know.

You might be able to figure it out from this page (http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit). I'm too lazy to figure it out for you. So, I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.:flipbg:


Edit: If I read the wiki correctly, you need 0 hit if you have iFF and BoP against a lvl 82 mob. In fact you are over the hit cap by 1%. 2% if you have a Draenei in your group.

IOW, Kheldar, I don't think you need any hit for 5-mans.

While you need hit (263 against a raid boss assuming you have iFF), you will need less since you are only playing against 5-man bosses. How much less? I don't know.

You might be able to figure it out from this page (http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit). I'm too lazy to figure it out for you. So, I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader.:flipbg:

------------------------------------------------------------
Spell-Hit Rating
----------
1 Hit Rating = 0.038% Hit
26.23 Hit Rating = 1% Hit

Cap vs Level 80 mob = 4% Hit = 104.93 HitRating
Cap vs Level 81 mob = 5% Hit = 131.16 HitRating
Cap vs Level 82 mob = 6% Hit = 157.39 HitRating
Cap vs Level 83 mob = 17% Hit = 445.94 HitRating (raid boss)
------------------------------------------------------------

Have all the numbers.
I'm the druid-classleader of our guild so i made a post in summary of all the numbers u need as a druid.
Maybe i will translate it to english in the next days to post it here (i'm normaly a little german speaking person :dance: )

edit:
damn: forgot this is melee-hitrating-requirement. :-(

edit:
posted the right one :-)

There is a nice chart on the above wiki page that explains it quite well...

Here's the link (http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit#Hit_rating_chart).

As mentioned in my above edit, you need 0 hit against a lvl 82 mob if you have BoP and iFF.

cheers guys.

i do have enough hit then for 5 mans.

i do have IFF and BoP, just gotta make sure i always apply iFF!!

well i've just picked up 3 major glyphs.

starfire
innervate
hurricane

also did the one AC daily i needed to allow me to finally hit exalted and buy :

boots of the neverending path http://thottbot.com/i44297
signet of hopeful light http://thottbot.com/i44283

and in another hour i'll have a

mantle of the eternal sentinel http://thottbot.com/i40439


plus i bought a set of

boots of the septic wounds http://thottbot.com/i40270

been a spending time in the past 30 mins !!!

then gem for spellpower and get some enchants on stuff to. Spirit on boots ? or Icewalker ?

Icewalker for boots!

is icewalker that good though ?

i dont need the hit as we've discussed above so it seems a waste for just a small +crit ?

Not convinced I need :

Eclipse
Moonglow

I could instead max out :

Wrath Of Cenarius
Imp Moonfire
Celestial Focus

Given i solo and only do 5 mans ? Comments ?

get icewalker.
the best enchant for caster there is.
and maybe someday u will need the crit :-)

still not convinced that 12 (?) crit is going to make a big difference and the hit is not needed ?

well we ran 3 or so heroics yesterday for some badges and rep.

once again we struggled totally on the void boss in VH and in the end had to give up. we just could not deal with the shadowbolts.

was it just bad luvck that the people getting the 'void shift' debuff always seemed to be the tank and healer ? is that why it proved so hard ? or it that boss just not doable unless everyone is in T65 gear !:o

we had 2 people with us who are Naax 25 man etc geared, including the healer. but we just could not down him. the first boss and trash etc was a piece of cake.

hoping to try again tonite and we dont get that boss. i've only been in VH-heroic twice now and got the void boss both times.

also ran HoS (my first time) the Bran event is quite hard - well it was first time ! UK seems straightforward as a heroic and i want that meta helm that drops.

i've finally started to look through Atlasloot for what i need to try to target places to go for either feral upgrades or oomkin.

really need a decent oomkin weapon.

Would people recommend a 2H or 1H and off hand ? I see epic offhands on the AH for circa 250g...cant rememeber the names of them.....Doom ? I just never think that a 1h+off hand seems to come near the specs of equivalent 2h ?

really having fun with oomkin although dps from recount seems to sit around 1300. although i did seem to jump to 1500 on one heroic.....

sitting around :
1550 spell power
340 haste
18.5% crit
104 - lowered this due to previous posts etc on the level of content i am involved in......

I also respecced.

I no longer have :

Typhoon
Eclipse

I maxed :

Wrath of Cenarius
Celestial Focus


So will see how i do this week with a slightly revised build.

Am totally loving Hurricane :wavey:

@Kheldar
Why did u drop Typhoon?
It's one of the most fun abilities in the game.
And a person like you, who is doing many dailies and such stuff this is the most fun ability in the world.^^
I would skip 1 point from dreamstate just for the fun-factor!

Not convinced of icewalker?
Here some points why you should take it:
- crit > spirit big-times
- you need HIT, look at the lvl of heroic-bosses (lvl 82)
so 6% for the bosses
- it's cheap to enchant :dance:
- we all recommend it :D

i decided that i actually don use typhoon that often to utilise a point. i was looking more to spec for 5 mans. i did not and do not believe its needed for 5 mans.

i agree on crit > spirit i'm just not convinced the amount of crit Icewalker gives is that vital or more important that a nice spirit enchant in this instance ?

Yes i need hit BUT as we've previously discussed I do seem to have more than enough hit via talents to not need any additional hit for the level of bosses i fight...ie 5 man heroics at the highest boss level ? Are you saying this is not correct ?

I agree its cheap, cost is not a factor for this wealthy druid :flipbg: :rolling:

I dont think everyone recommends it ;)

I'm yet to be convinced its the 'best' option for me given my talents / gear and the places i 'raid'.

Cmon 'everyone' convince me. :band:



Edit : i'm logged out in oomkin gear so please feel free to look and suggest what i've done wrong !

we had 2 people with us who are Naax 25 man etc geared, including the healer. but we just could not down him. the first boss and trash etc was a piece of cake.If the healer is in Naxx gear, there is no reason he can't heal thru the entire VW boss event. No one even needs to touch the adds. You can ignore them all together. I've tanked it (with 5-man drops, and crafted items) with a "dungeon blue" shammy healer and we never touched the adds. In fact, I think there is an achievement for doing that...

Anyone know if the security system (red knobs) will kill those adds???

While I never do this (didn't even know it existed until I had killed him several times), make sure your tank and dps do not hit the boss when he has that wierd debuff up that reduces healing. That alone should allow the healer to fall asleep during the fight...

- you need HIT, look at the lvl of heroic-bosses (lvl 82)
so 6% for the bossesNo you don't as you get 4% from BoP and 3% from iFF. That's all you need. In fact, you are over the cap for a lvl 82 mob.

You need an additional 10% to hit a raid boss (263 hit rating) in addition to BoP and iFF (or the shadow priest equivalent).

Given that your gear probably has some hit on it, you might be able to drop BoP (worth 105 hit rating) or iFF (worth 79 hit rating) and still be hit cap'd against a lvl 82 mob. You could use those talent points to boost your AoE???? Mana regen??? Brambles (thorns appears to be really nice in 3.1 if cast'd by someone wearing SP gear)???

Khel, yeah - Icewalker is the best boot ench for DPS. Especially since you've already got so much mana regen in talents, the spirit just won't help as much.

You'd also asked earlier for suggestions on weapons and 2H vs 1H/OH - typically a one-hand and off-hand will yield better dps. (at least until Staff of Endless Winter and the new 2H SP enchant comes out in 3.1 ... DROOOOOOL)

My humble $0.02, since you're shopping, get a BS to make you a Titansteel Guardian and slap on the highest SP enchant you can afford, then for offhand I'd either get the Ward of the Violet Citadel from badge vendor, or Telestra's Journal from Nexxus. Both of these offhands have hit, which I know you're not worried about, but you could then replace some of the hit pts you've invested elsewhere with SP. Just a thought.

Oh, and I'm not sure why you wouldn't have been able to find Sqawk-and-Awe in Matrix, that's how I got it. Try typing "balance" into your search field. Should pop right up

If the healer is in Naxx gear, there is no reason he can't heal thru the entire VW boss event. No one even needs to touch the adds. You can ignore them all together. I've tanked it (with 5-man drops, and crafted items) with a "dungeon blue" shammy healer and we never touched the adds. In fact, I think there is an achievement for doing that...
healer is totally decked out in 25 man epics. seems to be an awesome healer. she is a shammy. from memory she runs with over 20k mana and over 20k hp iirc ?

maybe the tank and I were the weakest links ! as our gear is ofc no where near as good. we are both in a mix of blues and epics...ilvl 187 to ilvl 213 i guess.

and/or the person getting void shifted was often the healer or tank ? we had no chance the shadowbolts were coming so fast i was down quickly as were the 2 mages.


Anyone know if the security system (red knobs) will kill those adds???

the what ?



No you don't as you get 4% from BoP and 3% from iFF. That's all you need. In fact, you are over the cap for a lvl 82 mob.

Given that your gear probably has some hit on it, you might be able to drop BoP (worth 105 hit rating) or iFF (worth 79 hit rating) and still be hit cap'd against a lvl 82 mob. )???

Exactly - i'm actually looking to reduce my hit as i still have a +20 hit enchant on my gloves so that has to go tonite !

Very good point tlb - i may well look at my talent spec with the intention of removing iFF and seeing where the 3? points could be better spent.....comments on my talents welcome here :grin:

Khel, yeah - Icewalker is the best boot ench for DPS. Especially since you've already got so much mana regen in talents, the spirit just won't help as much.

thanks Tsu, guess i go to my friendly enchanter and get spirit changed for Icewalker. I just felt i dont have a lot of spirit so more of it would help.....

i dont have much problem with mana so far in 5 mans. only get really low if i'm spamming hurricane and/or need to help out with a bit of healing.

although my mp5 i dont think is that great - most i can rememeber seeing is about 500 ooc and 200 ish i/c ?


You'd also asked earlier for suggestions on weapons and 2H vs 1H/OH - typically a one-hand and off-hand will yield better dps. (at least until Staff of Endless Winter and the new 2H SP enchant comes out in 3.1 ... DROOOOOOL)

My humble $0.02, since you're shopping, get a BS to make you a Titansteel Guardian and slap on the highest SP enchant you can afford, then for offhand I'd either get the Ward of the Violet Citadel from badge vendor, or Telestra's Journal from Nexxus. Both of these offhands have hit, which I know you're not worried about, but you could then replace some of the hit pts you've invested elsewhere with SP. Just a thought.

cheers Tsu - i'll check out the stats / mats and cost of that item. we have a high level BS to in the guild !

i've seen a Face of Doom on the AH as a nice looking OH ? also something else.....can't remember the name. both ilvl 200 epics.

I was looking to use my badges for the Sundial trinket and some nice gloves/chest as those are my weakest areas - both still blues currently.


Oh, and I'm not sure why you wouldn't have been able to find Sqawk-and-Awe in Matrix, that's how I got it. Try typing "balance" into your search field. Should pop right up
found it ! got it downloaded but not yet working.

So i finally did it.
I respecced for the first time since mid-BC to Balance.
And what can i say. It really IS fun. :flipbg:

Made a twinkrun with my friends (moonkin = my twink ;) )
and it was really nice seeing those 12k crits with starfire!!

Did about 4k DPS on Patchwerk and was 2nd on the meters (right behind the only main-char who was with us->arcane-mage).
I will explore this spec a little more and will try going naxx25 on thursday with my guild. (as class-leader of druids i will use my power to make myself a spot as moonkin :rolling: )

Typhoon is a blast when kicking hordies down from naxx entrance. so is starfall in a 1on1 situation.

The only bad thing is, that i'm really fragile vs rogues.


PS:
For those prop-moonkins here -> i'm logged out in my moonkin-gear, so it would be nice if you'd take a look and give advice on how to improve it.
It's now socketed and itemized to crit.
I have the gear to push my haste to about 520 (bringing casttime of starfire to 2.5 secs), but loosing about 3-4% crit and about 60 spell-power.
What do you guys suggest?

PS:
For those prop-moonkins here -> i'm logged out in my moonkin-gear, so it would be nice if you'd take a look and give advice on how to improve it.
It's now socketed and itemized to crit.
I have the gear to push my haste to about 520 (bringing casttime of starfire to 2.5 secs), but loosing about 3-4% crit and about 60 spell-power.
What do you guys suggest?

While I don't consider myself a Prop-moonkin, I have lots of hours of moonkin raid experience under my belt at this point!

I don't know the theorycrafting too well on the moonkin, but I know my DPS seems to scale much better with crit than haste. I think my haste is only around 400ish (prebuff) but starfall crits = godly, regardless how long it takes to cast!

(on a side note, if you are a flower picker, I found that telling outfitter to make me a haste set has greatly improved my herbing performance!) So if you see me in armory with a mix match of feral/caster gear on, I promise, I am not crazy! :) <4 sec picks + flight form = crazy effecient herbalists!!!

the what ?The little red knobs around the room on the wall (there is one right as you walk in that the NPC "activates" as she leaves that kills all the mobs in the room and then her guards leave). There are 3 on the ground level and 2 on the upper level (each knob can only be used once). I've only used them to kill the water boss when he splits into the little water elementals. As soon as the water boss explodes into the little guys have one person click a knob and poof, the mobs are dead. They reform into the boss. DPS the boss. Repeat 2-3 times.

I was wondering if they can be used to kill the VW bosses' adds.

The little red knobs around the room on the wall (there is one right as you walk in that the NPC "activates" as she leaves that kills all the mobs in the room and then her guards leave). There are 3 on the ground level and 2 on the upper level (each knob can only be used once). I've only used them to kill the water boss when he splits into the little water elementals. As soon as the water boss explodes into the little guys have one person click a knob and poof, the mobs are dead. They reform into the boss. DPS the boss. Repeat 2-3 times.

I was wondering if they can be used to kill the VW bosses' adds.

Nope they cannot (only the shifted party can hit the summoned "sentry") So maybe if the shifted party could get to the crystal, it may, but I can tell you from personal experience if the non-shifted person hits the crystal, it does nothing.

It does however absolutley destroy the orbs summoned by the other (ethereal) boss too. I <3 the crystals. There are several "crystals" on the top layer to be used while kiting the Ethereal boss, so you still have those on the ground floor for the water boss if needed.

It does however absolutley destroy the orbs summoned by the other (ethereal) boss too.What!! No way! That would make that fight stupid easy. You wouldn't even need to kite him. I could pull him into the corner on the ground floor, use the knob in the corner. Run up the stairs, repeat. Or does he instantly start summoning new orbs as soon as you kill the first ones?

ahha now i understand.

when we completed it the other day and i got Trickery we got some additional achievement that someone said was to do with not using something.....i guess its the little red knobs !

we did VH-H again last nite as its was the daily.

Luckily no VW - we got the orb boss though for the first time and struggled to begin as the tank had never done him. so a dps brought his tank and its was a piece of cake.

however we also got the water boss and for some reason all the summoned little mobs kept dying en mass ! now I understand someone was doing the little red knob ! lol.

i thought DK's had it easy on threat gen....but the pally tank that the dps swapped out for was insane on threat gen !

we bears are being seriously left behind !

What!! No way! That would make that fight stupid easy. You wouldn't even need to kite him. I could pull him into the corner on the ground floor, use the knob in the corner. Run up the stairs, repeat. Or does he instantly start summoning new orbs as soon as you kill the first ones?

I would not move yourself into a corner, as he very much likes to teleport folks all over. Just kite along the top level, starting on the very left platform. You will walk past 2-3 crystals along the way. If 3+ orbs are out, just have a DPS hit one while you are walking. You get teleported, just start kiting again. No one gets blown up = happy healer!

i thought DK's had it easy on threat gen....but the pally tank that the dps swapped out for was insane on threat gen !

we bears are being seriously left behind !

There is no doubt we are the weakest class for AoE threat generation, but we do have some pretty sick single target threat. It takes me a sec or two to get it going, but one a lacerate is up, I can out threat "BIS" pallies on any single target, except undead...oh shoot...thats most of the mobs in end game raiding...

"Bear Fart" or whatever they are calling our 360 degree attack should help significatly along with changing the "out of range" issues we have when multiple mobs are running around like crazy.

i'm not sure of the gear of the pally - when i used to run heroics with his Lock his pally was being levelled.

but he was keeping hold of everything despite the rest of us aoe'ing away ! my hurricane button was getting seriously overused :p

i cant see anyway i would have had a chance in hell of keeping the same sort of aggro on mobs as he was with the aoe going on. i will check his gear as that maybe a factor.

what's 'BIS' ?

what's 'BIS' ?Best in Slot.

That achievement you get for not using the knobs is silly. As it all depends on which bosses you get. As there is really only 2 of the 6 bosses that you can even use them on. So, if you don't get one of those two, you get the achievement.

"Bear Fart" or whatever


I lol'd

Best in Slot.

That achievement you get for not using the knobs is silly. As it all depends on which bosses you get. As there is really only 2 of the 6 bosses that you can even use them on. So, if you don't get one of those two, you get the achievement.

Aren't all acheivements..."Silly"??? :rolleyes:

(My not so secret distane for achievments)

Aren't all acheivements..."Silly"??? Yes they are. But this dungeon achievement doesn't really require any effort. Just run VH several times. At some point you'll get it. Sort of like the falling 60yds and living achievement.

I know I haven't tried for any achievement except Sarth1D. They all seem sort of silly. Though I do like the idea of the dungeon achievements, but I've never tried for any of them. I see how a small 5-man only guild would like to challenge themselves to do those...

I know I haven't tried for any achievement except Sarth1D. They all seem sort of silly. Though I do like the idea of the dungeon achievements, but I've never tried for any of them. I see how a small 5-man only guild would like to challenge themselves to do those...

I agree that some of the dungeon/raid ones should be considered "achievements", but most are purely cosmetic. Also, as a raid leader who struggles with folks logically thinking their way through an encounter, the idea that they get "acheivements" or "cudos" for doing an encounter "wrong" is silly.

Where's the achievement for "kill the boss, by systematically elimanating all ads so that your healer isn't going crazy!"? No instead there is an achievement for having a Noob DPS with you, who can't follow simple instuctions to "Kill the sentry's when shifted". :tut:

A lot of them are silly.

The only ones i actually tried to do :

Explorer - finished off running around old places in Azeroth i'd not visited in the previous 4 yrs !

Elder - decided i fancied the title

My achievements just seem to happen - like loot so much gold - Breadwinner ? and ofc completing the wrath 5 mans including stuff like that achievement for not using the red knobs in VH ! lol

My main beef with the whole system is they failed to give me all the achievements for things i'd done - loads of old dungeons i did not/do not have the achievements for yet i've got loot still from some of the final bosses in places ? :mad:

And secondly - its an 'achievement' to take a bunch of 80's and go run MC ? or Kill Ony ? or even kill C'Thun ? /lame

It's funny... when achievements first came out, i was like "WTF ever..."

then i started to get some PvP achievements and started to come around a little bit... The PvP achievements are definitely the ones I'm most proud of, and have looked at other achievements (like elder and explorer) and finished those. I'd like to get the "Champion of the Northern Wastes" achievement before the patch ( i need h Occ and Maly). Other than that, the achievements don't really hold much interest for me.

The "Champion of the Northern Wastes" was the first title I ever got, and got it completley by accident. I had no idea it was even an achievement.

The only thing I have against the "achievements" is that they are such an enormous time sink. There's a guy in guild who has just about every Title / Acheivement imaginable but still has the gall to whine about repair costs and show up unenchanted/gemmed because he's "too poor"....grrr. Run a daily, gather some resourse and barter...do somthing useful!!!!

Ok, now I am done. WoW is different for everyone, and I love the Raiding and Economic systems of WoW, while others prefer the social/cosmetic aspects of it all. Thats what makes WoW so great! But seriously, you guys drove to every nook and corner of the emense world in order to have "the Explorer" in your title? I think I just lack patience.

i think the BIGGEST gripe i have about the achievement system is the statistics section that came along with them... I THINK (note sure) that they're taking up valuable CPU capacity by keeping track of all that crap. If anyone else here can educate me on that, i'd be glad to listen. I just have NO use for information like how much gold i've spent on taxis, or how much gold i've spent on repair bills etc etc. Meanwhile, my fps is dropping through the floor on Vault25, OS25, and Naxx25, which is proving to be a MAJOR PITA :(

But seriously, you guys drove to every nook and corner of the emense world in order to have "the Explorer" in your title? I think I just lack patience.

tbh Solar, given i've played since day 1 when wow was very different.

and given i levelled and quested all over the place i actually had covered most of the world.

just not actually ever ended up exploring some of the ally zones - on a pve server.

so looked around and explored them few places.

then i was done.

guys and gals....

i've just got myself a Titansteel Guardian.

i'd been reading the official forums and this was recommended as a top weapon for an oomkin....

trouble is i'm stuck now for a OH....the ones the same post said are not anything i have yet and come from heroics i've yet to run....

so i wondered what your views were....

its a nice weapon but it lacks some int and esp some haste i feel....so what to get quickly for a OH ?

always on our AH :

Face of Doom
Iron Bound Tome

cheers



wow, that was a short post in this thead for me....hopefully no one has fallen asleep this time ;)

I would go with the "Face of Doom" if you are looking for an easy AH solution.

I would reccomend running Heroic Nexus when you can. Its the easiest Heroic in game and drops a very nice OH from the mage lady.

Also, there is a nice OH that can be bought using heroic badges (x25 I think). That is the one that I use for my boomkin set.

yeah the face looks quite nice solar :)

circa 300g iirc.

i was saving badges for the tier gloves and chest you can get with 60/80 badges ?

i was saving badges for the tier gloves and chest you can get with 60/80 badges ?

Well you know, if you are running 4 5-mans a night, you may as well just find a few more buddies and make it a naxx run!!!

;)

Lots of upgrades and Tier tokens there!!!

lol Solar.

thats not an event that will happen very often !

next week i'm back to little time and not til 7:30 ish after baby boy is in bed.

Well you know, if you are running 4 5-mans a night, you may as well just find a few more buddies and make it a naxx run!!!Frankly, I'd rather run 4 5-mans than run naxx. I find 5-mans just so much more fun than raids.

yeah indeed tlb.

now we're back to running stuff with people we know its really fun doing 5 mans and they are quick.

i'm guessing there is more stress ususally in a 'proper' raid and naax etc take a lot longer to run ?

plus more to organise than a 5 man...esp if we start with 2 or 3 of us from the guild.

i'm guessing there is more stress ususally in a 'proper' raid and naax etc take a lot longer to runMaybe it is the people I play with, but I find that 10-man (and I assume 25 are worst) runs get so bogged down with DCs, afks, loot stuff, etc. That it can take the fun out of it. Plus raid tanking isn't anywhere near as exciting as 5-man tanking. DPS is DPS. Not sure about healing...

Once you are way OP for 5-man (say you have nearly full Naxx gear) they are kind of silly, but even with full badge (I mean emblem) gear they are quite fun. Plus there are more of them.

yeah the organisation for a 40 man could be a nitemare.

1 person goes afk. then someone else says they'll 'brb' and suddenly its 15 mins or more before you restart!

5 mans are easier. i think i have a ways to go b4 i am OP for heroics ! and i've still not been inside a good few of them !

managed to run UK / VH heroics yesterday and was topping the dps chart in VH around 1750dps whcih was nice to see.

a few more badges and i can decide on getting the Tier Chest or the Tier Gloves....

:)

Maybe it is the people I play with, but I find that 10-man (and I assume 25 are worst) runs get so bogged down with DCs, afks, loot stuff, etc...

I think it may be the folks you run with. It takes me about 20 mins to get everyone together and in Naxx (25man), then we typically run for about 2-2.5 hours (half clears, x2 nights). As far as afk's etc...unless its just before a boss fight, we keep going without them. You can at any point give up 3-5 people and keep clearing trash without any noticable impact.

We clear trash while distributing loot! Its always fun to look at the meters etc, for the ML on the raids. They literally only participate in one or two trash pulls before each boss, and pass out loot the rest of the time while we clear.

10 man is definatley more difficult to manage with a person or two DC'd or Afk though. We still keep going if that person is DPS though.

I think its really a matter of what you are used to doing. It seems to take me longer to do 5-man stuff than most raids as far as organization and running. I guess the same 14 boss encounters everyweek makes it easy to know that everyone running knows what to do.

managed to run UK / VH heroics yesterday and was topping the dps chart in VH around 1750dps whcih was nice to see.As a boomkin? Have you run into mana issues?

As a boomkin? Have you run into mana issues?
yeah as an oomkin tlb.

depends what you mean my issues ?

i was doing some drinking between fights in VH-H. not all the time though and mainly i was going for a fast drink before each boss came along.

obviously using hurricane does eat through the mana pool given its near 3k a cast !

on single portal guardians i was obvioulsy not using hurricane but when there were multimobs i'd use 2 probably per fight.

i guess i'm running with around 16k mana - we dont ever seem to have a mage so i dont get an int buff.

and i choose my guardian elixir between the +45int and the +20 (?) MP5. On this particular VH-H i went with a +mp5 elixir.

so without using hurricane i never have mana issues.....dont remember really ever going below 10k maybe more ?

with hurricane i was getting down to 5-6k mana and then needing to drink before the next portal.

do you get mana issues tlb ? i know my mp5 is not the best but i do seem to regen mana quite fast i feel.

i was really happy with my dps level for my gear in that VH-H.

had a few mana issues last nite.

the guy who was tanking on his pally was in a bit of a hurry and there was no stopping between pulls.

we ran AN heroic and UK heroic in less than 1 hr.

we killed the last boss in UK as the GotW was running down below 20 seconds left :)

i do love the fact that heroics in Wrath dont have to take ages. more casual friendly.

i was doing around 1750dps which i hope is ok for my gear. i was using quite a bit of hurricane and that does soak the mana, even with a 24mp5 elixir. and the bought water seems to be so slow at regen mana - we never have a mage and i've never noticed if mage water is a lot better at mana regen faster ?

tonite i said i'd like to finally run both Drak and Gun, plus UK and maybe VH time permitting :)

only 700 rep to Kirin exalted as well :)

So, are you collected more than 3 mobs on purpose? Or does this just happen? I know my co-worker loves to play (quest) that way, but I find it oh so annoyingly slow. He claims it is faster....

I commonly collect 5-6 mobs in kitty, then hit beserk and swipe till they are all dead, works wonders and much quicker than fighting them 1 at a time! I do have tank gear so have a lot of stam, and if i do end up down to 30% health or less, i just shift and hit frenzied regen :P

yeah i find i can collect 4-5 in oomkin now if i'm ready and done a self heal.

then just barkskin and hurricane them to death. :)

i finally got a proper 1h and OH now to.

guildie made me the Titansteel Guardian and i bought a Faces of Doom off the AH for 250g.

so atm Un-buffed in oomkin i'm running

1843 bonus spellpower
24.45% crit
345 haste
296/143 mp5 - my worst stat.
15.5k HP
15k mana
46 hit - still enough for the places i raid with IS.


my dps seems quite good versus people we get in heroics that are at least equivalent gear wise and better than some i'd not have expected to beat.

so i'm more than happy for now and just want 3.1 for a dual spec. as i dont think 3.1 does a lot for oomkins bad or good ?

as i dont think 3.1 does a lot for oomkins bad or good ?The biggest change is that it makes both Solar and Lunar eclipse viable, pre-3.1 only one was really good.

http://restokin.com/?p=756

Also the change to iFF is nice (5m), but that affects all Druids of any form. No reason not to at least cast it once at the beginning of a fight/phase.

thanks tlb. i did not think there was much of a change for me. yes 5 mins on iFF will be nice, sometimes i dont seem to have time to cast it in 5 mans on trash ! or the first mob gets one and the others dont !

still the only thing i really want it dual spec so i can at least have the choice of going feral.

i wonder if they will be resetting all talent points for this patch given the changes to classes ?

my stats are quite good now overall. doing ok in the heroics i'm running. usually topping the dps or coming a close 2nd which is fine given my level of gearing.

thanks tlb. i did not think there was much of a change for me. yes 5 mins on iFF will be nice, sometimes i dont seem to have time to cast it in 5 mans on trashiFF is strictly a boss only move for moonkins. As a cat or bear I always cast it because it is free.

ahha starfall now only a 90 sec cd :)

not sure i need to alter my pre 3.1 build much tbh for my oomkin given i dont raid etc.

still dont see i need the eclipse thingy and with mana regen supposedly more important now i will prob keep dreamstate and celestial focus etc as well as the usual help out talents for dps with moonfire and grab stuff to help hurricane.

well i have to say each day i love the Way of the Owl a bit more.

Sunday evening I managed to run 4 heroics. first one with a guildie tank, the rest with a combination of pug and people i know and run stuff with a lot.

luckily the pug dps were great people.

in fact we had a pug healer as well for some of it and a guildie of his doing awesome dps (he was a dk).

had a long chat after we finished and they basically asked me to the guild and said would i be interested in coming along to Naax 10 runs as they are always in need of good mature players, even thoose with no Naax experience !...well i know i'm old ;)

it was a great evening, and i saw and completed for the 1st time both Gundrak and Drak Tharon Keep.

Also the daily was VH so we hit that and omg we got VW as the first boss.....me sits there having had a few glasses of wine thinking we're doomed and we're dead. Yet we dps'ed him down in double quick time and got some Achievement for never killing any of the void spawns ! and no one died. after this the rest of VH fell to us easily.

I'm finally getting to the stage where i now seem to do 1800+ dps.

2 times i've topped 2k. Now i'm sure that's low compared to a lot of your out there but to me with my gear and the fact i've been oomkin for about 4 weeks now i feel quite chuffed :)

Although I must say other classes seem to be able to do good dps in blues (and even the odd green).

shadowpriests and mages spring to mind. a guildie is sort of coming back to the game after being bored and she came to her first ever heroic last nite in HoS. she has 2/3 epics max, mainly blues, hardly any enchants, and 2 greens. yet she did over 1500 dps ? Same with a shadowpriest we had the other night.

what is your single target dps on bosses? or was 2k it?

Just wondering
:)

no idea on bosses.

i just look at recount after we finish a 5 man heroic.

what is a good dps figure to have at the end of a standard 5 man heroic ?

what sorta dps figure were people asking for you to have to enter 10 man stuff like Naax ?

before i switch to feral resto dual spec, my balance dps from heroic gear was around 1700 single target, i didnt use a mod, i just IS/MF Starfire/Wrath Until Eclipse proc.( unless my initial Starfire proc'd eclipse.)


Now that i am resto/feral, ( i havn't used any BoH's) i am more focus'd on getting healing gear from drops and plan on using my BoH's to buy better tanking gear

Which ( i think) my tanking gear kinda sucks and needs improvement.

well i never look at the recount figures til we finish the heroic.

and i dont have eclipse as i was not finding it that useful running heroics. stuff was dying to quickly to really make it a useful 5 man talent imho.

yep when i was dpsing i'd set it to current fight and click on it after the boss was dead.

And yea alot of time eclipse would proc after the mobs were dead but imho, i really liked it on the boss when i machine gunned out a bunch of critting wrath at the boss..

yeah i found the proccing of it meant i often did not get to use it so wasted talent points for me.

True on trash pulls it kind of sucks, But on boss fights, it doesn't cause it will rpoc atleast two times, But that all depends how fast the rest of your group is on dps, when u down a boss.
( I am refering to heroic bosses, raid bosses would take longer to kill which in turn would probably give you more procs.)

yeah and as i dont raid i found it less than optimal only for heroic bosses.

so i've used the points elsewhere and i dont think i am missing it, but its v hard to quantify !

well i picked up fairly cheap Undeath deck on Monday before going on my hols.

just visited the Faire so got the trinket now.

takes my unbuffed crit to almost 29.5% :)

ok rather than clutter up and hijack Kai's thread i thought i better transfer to here !

...

I think you will see a pretty significant boost in your DPS even in just Heroics by boosting your hit to the +150 range. Do you run recount? You should see how many times your "Spam" attack (wrath/starfire) miss over the course of a run. I am guessing 10% range with your current hit.

thanks solar i will check....yes i use recount.

given i dont raid and i have the appropriate talents i dont actually need hit for the level of mobs i face.

well i did find a green trinket i saved with 50 ish hit and 202 SP on use so that will tide me over till the one from VH-H.

and i have some of the accuracy elixir.

hmm just looked and i cant see anything on recount where it shows misses against offensive abilities.

If u are for example on the damage or DPS sheet in recount, just click on your name and a window will open, where u can see how much damage u did with what spell.
And here u should see your misses too.

nope s3R i can click on me and see the spells i used to do damage and then select one but all i'm getting is the numbr of hits / number of crits and then the min/max/average damage each did, plus the overall percantage of damage that attack did....

nothing about misses ? what am i missing !!

I'm at work right now. But i will look into it tonight!

cheers s3R, it would be interesting to know my miss %age and then to improve it and see what difference it makes.

did you get a chance to look at it last nite s3R ?

sorry khel... i wasn't much online.

I installed Windows Vista64 yesterday and there where no drivers for my fu..... onboard soundcard for vista 64bit...
so i had no sound.
Made my Jewelcrafters daily and logged out so frustraded cause of no sound....
Today i'll buy a soundcard :-D

nope s3R i can click on me and see the spells i used to do damage and then select one but all i'm getting is the numbr of hits / number of crits and then the min/max/average damage each did, plus the overall percantage of damage that attack did....

nothing about misses ? what am i missing !!

If its not showing misses, its because you missed nothing!!! It won't show 0.00% misses, it just leaves that out. However with <100 hit rating I would assume you have quite a few misses on bosses in heroics etc.

hmm well its not showing any miss data against any offensive ability like starfire/wrath etc that i can see.

if anyone can post a screeny or 2 of their recount showing misses so i know where to be looking or if anyone has any idea of if showing misses is some config item please let me know.

remember i apply IFF etc and have the talents to reduce my need for hit/the hit ability of mobs etc against the level of bosses i fight ?

If its not showing misses, its because you missed nothing!!! It won't show 0.00% misses, it just leaves that out. However with <100 hit rating I would assume you have quite a few misses on bosses in heroics etc.

Well Solar its not showing any misses against any of my offensive abiliities that I can see...

just number of time i used starfire etc and the average hit and the min / max damage plus the highest crit.

so even with the appropriate talents should i be missing on heroic level bosses (plus some use of IFF/IIS) ?

Well Solar its not showing any misses against any of my offensive abiliities that I can see...

just number of time i used starfire etc and the average hit and the min / max damage plus the highest crit.

so even with the appropriate talents should i be missing on heroic level bosses (plus some use of IFF/IIS) ?


No clue then...I would have to assume your Recount is failing, but I don't know for sure. Maybe you are some kind of inexplicably accurate boomkin! :D

No clue then...I would have to assume your Recount is failing, but I don't know for sure. Maybe you are some kind of inexplicably accurate boomkin! :D
I think you are correct - my accuracy is awesome and I am a targeting mobs with amazing accuracy :beerchug:

if you are over the hit cap what level of misses is normal for raiding oomkins ?

I think you are correct - my accuracy is awesome and I am a targeting mobs with amazing accuracy :beerchug:

if you are over the hit cap what level of misses is normal for raiding oomkins ?

Same as everyclass. Everyone has a 1% chance to miss regardless what your hit rating is.

well Solar i finally saw 3 misses on my recount last night ! but only 3 and none against starfire or hurricane

so i have to say that i believe i am simply not missing hardly anything and my recount is accurate due to the level of bosses etc i am facing.