Well, I finally pulled the trigger and /Gquit this past weekend.

I have been getting more and more annoyed/frustrated with the general direction that our raids had been moving. After many discussions with the guild leader, I decided that I needed to step away. I (raid lead) wanted to take raiding in a direction that was contrary to the guild philosophy, so rather than having a guild devided, I decided I would step out and join a new guild, one that had more similar goals to mine.

Now only a few days later, I am flooded with whispers of QQ/drama in the guild I left behind. I tried to step out and not publicly share my frustrations with the guild, but instead simply say "I needed somthing different". So now, all my top raiders from the previous guild want to follow me to my new guild, thus crippling the guild I left.

How do I handle this? I don't want them to bail on my previous guild, but it's a bit hypocritical to tell them to stick it out....it will get better!

It's very much feels like breaking up with a GF...."why, don't you love me anymore...."

In my opinion, of course --

Just stay neutral on it and let them switch if they want to. If they want to switch guilds, that's their decision.

Yeah, my other major concern, is that I am trying to not be a raid leader any more. I just can't commit that much personal time to the game. I just want to be able to show up and do my job in raids. If a bunch of my other raiders join up with my new guild I am afraid they will always be coming to me with issues, and view me as their leader still. I just don't want a "clique" forming in the new guild.

sorry to hear that Solar, but hope you enjoy it in your new guild.

As Yr says, at the end of the day its up to them if they leave but also more importantly upto the new guild if they want to accept them all ? (depending upon how many there are in your fan club :elfgrin: ) ie are they in need of the classes etc

Have you made it clear to :

a) new guild
b) your old guild fan club

that you are not going to be Raid Leading (or an officer or CL etc etc) but are in this new guild to simply be a 'guild member' who turns up prepared to raid and raids ? ie to have fun and enjoy the game.

If I was your new guild i'd be a little wary of tons of people suddenly coming into my guild from one guild.

Although I also think its down to what you precisely mean by you wanting to 'take raiding in a different direction contrart to guild philosophy' - its a game aint it ? philosophy !

Did you make any sort of post on your old guild forums explaining that you were off to pastures new / wanted a change / had fun and wished them all the best ?

At the end of the day you may finally find out that others in the guild were actually fed up / frustrated like you but no one wanted to rock the boat.....

you've now done the rocking.....and others now feel able to stand up and rock with you ! ie they needed that extra push before they looked to gquit.

Yeah Khel, everyone in both guilds are well aware of my intentions and what I want out of the game. The shock to most is that I have spent lots and lots of time in the past helping others get the most out of the game. In the past, I have very much enjoyed just running around trying to get everyone raid ready, but that was wearing me out.

I needed a group of folks that were all, already set to raid, without my help. It sounds terribly selfish, but I was in a vicious circle of gearing/training folks to raid and then they would move onto other things or guilds.

The philosophy is actually very crucial to the balance in the guild. My old guild had 5-10 folks that loved to raid and were willing to put in the extra effort and time to do so, and another 15-20 people that really just wanted a few shiney purples with as little effort as possible. I am with the first group and want to see the content and try the "Hard Modes" before they are nerfed into oblivion.

y old guild struggled to get a 10 man each week that could clear the keepers. My new guild, just did a "Hard Mode" run last night (to be continued tonight) that Did FLx2, Razorscale Meta Ach, fell short of the Decon hardmode, but got the Meta Ach, Completed Hard Mode Ignis....all in a single night, most of us were doing the hard modes for the first time. We wiped alot, but figured them out and pushed on. And this wasn't even a normal "Guild Raid" its was just 10 of us horsing around.

I went from a very casual guild/raid, to a much more focused Raid. The guild itself is still pretty casual, but they are all business in raid (which I love!)

I am sure I rocked the boat in my old guild. I just hope I didn't capsize it. I have a lot of friends there and I feel terrible about what they are now going through.

Solar,

In the end, everyone pays their own subscription to the game and, therefore, should be free to do as they choose. You shouldn't be beating yourself up over moving on to better your in-game experience. Don't feel guilty over it.

As far as your old guildies- it's ultimately their decision whether to leave or stay. Are these former guild mates folks that will be able to contribute to the overall progression and philosophy of your new guild? If so, it might not be such a terrible thing for them to tag along. Just make it clear that you're no longer wanting to be a sponge to soak up their tears...and help them to understand what YOU want from the game. That way, perhaps they won't feel so compelled to look for you to take on a leadership roll again.

As far as capsizing the former guild...I don't think you should upset yourself over it. Guilds rise and fall. The recoil and drama will pass with time, and they can still rebuild. From the sounds of it, you've more than paid your dues and given them your all for quite awhile. You deserve to move on and enjoy an atmosphere that suits you better. Your former guild mates deserve the same.

Hopefully they're making the decision to move because they, too, want to be a part of a more focused raid guild...and not just because things are a little turbulent with your former guild.

Just my .02

Relax and enjoy yourself. You don't owe anyone but yourself here.

then don't worry about it Solar.

enjoy your new guild and what they can give you. if you have old guildies in the 5-10 section you mention above then they would appear to be useful recruits for your new one.

but make it clear that if any of them get into the new guild you are simply as a 'guild member' as i mentioned before.

i had the same thing years ago when i did raid. in the end the raid guild i was in folded due the differences between the real hard core raiders (the no lifers ;)) who wanted 5 raids of 4 hrs per week and major progress, those of us in the middle who would put in the effort to see progress but could not commit to 5 times a week down to the ones you appear to have as well looking for 'easy' epics.

it dont work ! or it does, but not for long cos people get frustrated etc and leave / cuase dramah etc !

sounds like your old guild needs to decide on its focus tbh and then move forward at a pace conducive to its overall membership....

hopefully its still afloat and you've not turned it into the Titanic ! :p

Thanks for the support guys. It sounds like the old guild isn't collapsing, but their current ulduar raid is pretty much dead in the water. That's unfortunate, but I think a neccesary casualty to preserve the guild.

The biggest problem that causal guilds face is the extremely broad brush "Casual" paints. I consider myself casual, but compared to you Khel, I am hardcore. I raid 2-3 nights a week, 3+ hours each of those nights. It seems casual to me, but thats because I am hanging out with folks that think nothing of raiding 5+ nights a week (college kids). At 26 years old, I am one of the "old guys" in my new guild. I like think the new guild is casual guild / hardcore raids...if that is really possible. So far its been fun, and I do miss chatting with my old guildies, but I will make sure to get in touch with them and run some heroics or BG's every once and a while.

=)

I'm not sure how your new guild works things, but...a few folks who have moved on from AoW extend invitations to us when they do "alt runs" through the raids. Maybe this is something you could suggest in the future, just to get the old gang together? Just a thought. Maybe it would smooth some ruffled feathers, so to speak, lol.

Solar, i would say you are not casual if you are doing 3 nights a week raiding - esp if its Uldaur you are doing.

you are not quite hardcore...they are the 4/5 nite a week crowd.

Casual to me also means there is acutally no requirement for you to turn up to any raids in a week, ie you dont have to commit to x raids per week or get kicked from the guild.

I can never commit to definitely be around on a certain day to raid. Wed evening is about the only nite i could commit to raiding. And tbh these days the thought of sitting at the pc for a sold 3-4 hrs is not a nice one.

running some heroics i can have a quick break in between, and there is not the level of expectation of progress that raids bring. i enjoyed my raid days and i would like to be able to see Naax and Uldaur, but i know it wont happen.

I'm just looking forward to a new 5 man in 3.2 and the badge changes for the chance of different/better gear.

Khel, don't say it won't happen, love. I'm notoriously terrified of PuGs, and generally run in any other direction to avoid being called into a raid of folks I don't know.

Having said that, I was pretty sure I'd never see any "end game" content either. So far I've seen quite a bit, and I'm not even any sort of raider based on your definitions. =D

But, clearing a wing of Naxx (on both 10 and 25) with a decent group takes about the same amount of time as a longer heroic. Have you thought about setting up a group that would agree to clear one with with you once a week or so? At least at that point, you'd have access to more gear and would get to see the content.

I wish there was a guild like that on our server...where you could commit to clearing a different wing once a week and go from there. I could totally do that. =D

Khel, do you or have you run Obsidian Sanctum or Vault of Archavon? Both are incredibly quick raids on both 10 and 25- about as long as a heroic instance...provided you're not wiping constantly...and they <3 resto/boomie druids for both. It's always fun to beat on Archavon. Especially when Des is asked to play happy healie tree, and Archie punts her across the room...

Well dont worry to much about my definitions Des ;)

I dont have time to do that sort of co-ordination and setup Des. I can that being a time sink with people saying yes then not being able to...you owuld also really need forums to organise that so anyone involved....esp trying for a 25 man /shudder could keep in touch.

Nope never been to VoA or OS due to time and fear of pugs. Seen a few wanted / advertised but stayed away so far.

I need to be like Solar....a 'member' only who just turns up, does a good job and leaves !

OMIGOLLY! Khel, VoA and OS are so so fun! And quick! You can rock them out, like I said, in about the time it takes to run a heroic, only the gear is better.

There is a very sexy staff that drops from Sarth+0 Heroic. People always seem to be running that raid. I /drool over it every time it drops but have not yet been lucky enough to snatch it.

If you were on my server (and similar time zone), I'd drag you with me everywhere I went. There's a priest in my current guild that every time he's on I'm like, "Hey, Come to...<insert random raid/instance here> with me =) It'll be so fun!"

Then we stir up a ruckus wherever we go. That's what happens when you put a Shadow Priest and a druid together- and give them too much downtime.

I might end up heading out into the great big scary world to raid more...which is heartbreaking because I'll be leaving behind really awesome folks. I just want a little more out of "end game" than I'm getting now. The benefit of being in a guild like AoW is that the door is always open to return to them and the people are just amazing ftmp. No drama if I leave, and no one really relies on you, like they did with Solar because it's just a companionship/leveling guild.

I've been doing a few Naxx/10 or Naxx/25 pugs lately as I only commit to my guild's ulduar/10 run. I don't find it is the players skill that makes raid pugs so bad sometimes but the logistics issues can get so bogged down in a pug.

We had a great group of skill players (except for one pally healer) in a Naxx/10 run. Over 2 nights we clear 1.75 wings in ~6 hours of play. Not due to wipes so much (those did happen until we lose that bad pally healer), but to the endless AFKS, premature pulls, player swaps (for certain roles, etc.). It was painful. It is those issues that, to me, make raid pugs a PITA. It didn't help that we didn't have vent. While it is not really needed in Naxx if the group knows what they are doing, I think it helps to make things run so much smoother (especially the ready checks and premature pulling problems).

WTB, pallies that aren't afraid to buff. I don't know what it is about pallies, but so many of them are stupid stingy about their blessings. They act like they cost 5g per cast or something.

HAHA! Tlb! We had the SAME thing last night in Naxx25! People were BEGGING for pally buffs, and we spent more time asking for buffs than I even care to talk about. It was a fun group though, so I didn't mind the downtime so much.

It is my understanding that paladins don't have to have reagents for their buffs, so...I'm not sure what the beef is. Mana conservation maybe? Only excuse I can think of.

I've been blessed with a lot of really fun PuGs lately. I think I'm getting spoiled =D

I think the "greater" blessings require reagents. The normal blessings don't.

hmm that explains why getting pally buffs is hard ! now i understand !

Pallies that don't buff = failadins

I've been blessed with a lot of really fun PuGs lately. I think I'm getting spoiled =D

I have been dubbed a bit of an optimist when it comes to PUGs. Everyone I know just dwells on the negative experiences, and historically I was the same way.

Since WotLK though, I have had better and better results from LFG folks. I find that many of them fall into the same category that I did in my other guild. Most are knowledgable players that either: 1) Can't commit to a raid time everyweek, or 2) are working on gearing their newest alt or 3) belong to a guild that cannot staff a full 25 man run.

The result is typically not grade A players, in terms of skill and gear, but I would consider most of them to be C's or better. (I.E. better than average). You could easily full clear Naxx and probably kill 5-6 bosses in Ulduar with most PUGs, at least on my server. Perhaps it is different elsewhere.



I encourage you to at least PUG VoA & OS, because tbh, very few guilds even bother to schedule those places, because they are so easily PUGable. Immediatley after your faction takes Wintergrasp, just jump into LFG for Voa or H-VoA, there will be lots of groups looking for help, especially if you are a healer or ranged DPS! :)

Agreed.

I just joined a raid...ish guild. They're brand new, and so we're still trying to get enough folks to put Naxx25 on farm. But I digress. I'm finding it really hard to adjust to the "raid guild" mentality (even in our casual setting) when I came from a very close group of friends in AoW who talked about anything and everything. AoW was where you hung out to relax while you farmed or did whatever...it's all very new and I can't help it, but I'm a lil lonely and homesick. lol

I've had some really good luck with PuGs, and also some really miserable luck. I'll explain the miserable luck on my other thread of randomness.

well i think u r on a lucky server Solar.

PUG's make me /shudder.

I never want to run something with more than 1 person i dont know picked up from lfg etc however i will always use wow-heroes before inviting someone which has saved me from a lot of heroic wannabees in lots of greens. it helps to that it always seems to be me who forms the grp and does the inviting.

Usually we can end up with someone whose in the grp already getting us the 5th person, either from their friends list or their guild.

One day i'll perhaps try VoA or OS.

Indeed Des - a raid guild will have a different mentality to your previous guild. they will be always focusing on the next raid/boss.