View Full Forums : Run Druid Run!!!
03-10-2005, 08:38 AM
So I've got the run thing down pat. Matter of fact I feel somewhat invincible in one on one and even two on one PvP.
Actually if I'm outside and I die it's probably just because I was screwing around or not really paying attention.
So staying alive is no problem. Killing hunters, mages, warriors, rogues even several levels higher is usually no problem. Warlocks not too bad, takes some time usually due to getting feared. Shamans pretty much kick my ass but I'm horde so not real concerned.
Haven't really fought many other Druids or Preist, but again I'm horde so I think my strategy would be no damage spells up front heal only and melee while they fire off. Once there mana is low and they've used innervate then I'd go bear for those stuns while they try to heal, then switch to Tauren for the warstomp and the blast with moonfire till dead. Of course if they decide to do no nuking and heal we'd probably just shake hands and walk away.
Which brings me to Paladin. I can't kill these guys for anything! There armor is way to good to melee with bear and there DPS way too high to melee with cat or castor. There healing is too much for me too out damage with spells before oom. I try to fight these guys whenever I can but its typically them chasing me around till I run out of mana. I run away heal up, let innervate cool down then go screw with them some more. They eventually get sick of this and leave the area because they realize they can't kill me either or they call buddies and I have to run.
So any ideas from successful Pally whackers?
03-10-2005, 07:13 PM
Unless one druid is a retard, we can not kill each other. Our mana regen > our DPS.
03-11-2005, 07:48 AM
Yeah, thats why I said it they decide not to nuke and just heal we'd probably just shake hands and walk away.
The whole point of this post was looking for some help on Paladins though. From the lack of input even from such avid poster's as yourself and Aitrius I can only assume the Druid vs. Paladin equals Run Druid Run!
Unless of course, as you pointed out, one player is a retard. Ah the retard factor...never fails to amuse.
03-11-2005, 08:31 AM
2 healing classes = :(
I doubt there is any way for a dru to beat a paladin. I've dueled a pally friend a few times using bear+heal, and he always owns me. Pally dps is just too high compared to ours. The fight lasts so long that all of their shields regen.
Bear can bring down most other classes, but not a pally. He's wearing plate AND he can heal himself very well. That means we do junk dmg in bear, and when we've finally racked up enough he can just heal back to full. Pally's dont have insane dps, but with a 2h wep they hit a lot harder than we do.
You absolutely cannot fight them in caster form, because they can break root w cleanse. Cat AC is even weaker than bear and doesnt come close to dpsing fast enough to kill it.
As far as I can tell druid vs pally = war of attrition. Problem is they damage us too fast and we end up burning mana, esp when we have to shift a lot bc we cannot fight them in caster form.
I believe they can even cleanse moonfire off themselves, so your caster is completely negated for anything besides healing. And if he saves his HoJ for your shift, that might not even happen either.
Horde druids should probably just avoid paladins.
As an alliance druid I just have to avoid shamans.
Those 2 classes are stupid and we can only win if the other player doesn't know how to play very well, and we get some lucky crits/resists.
03-11-2005, 10:27 AM
You absolutely cannot fight them in caster form, because they can break root w cleanse.
It's actually Blessing of Freedom they use to break our roots. It lasts for 10 secs and has a 20 sec cooldown, so you can use root against them, but you won't keep em rooted for long. Add to that that Blessing of Freedom is a pathetic 21 mana, and you will be losing a lot of mana to keep em rooted. If you are going to try and root them, use our rank 1 entangling roots. It lasts 12 secs and costs 50 mana, so even that length wouldn't last to max if they contstantly use Blessing of Freedom.
I only dueled a paladin once and I beat him. He must not have ever fought a druid before though, because he wasn't freeing himself from root nearly enough, and I actually made pretty quick work of him with a little bear form thrown in and a lot of nukes. Burned Natures Swiftness and Innervate, but got the job done at least. But I don't have any illusions about my dueling abilities (mediocre), I think it had more to do with his lack of abilities.
03-11-2005, 10:46 AM
Well yeah, if the other player is dumb you can usually win.
If a hunter doesnt know enough to mana-drain me he will get his ass kicked completely. Doesn't mean I can assume all hunters won't mana drain. Same with priests who dont break roots, shamans who don't purge HoTs. If they're that noobish with their class, you shouldn't have any trouble owning them.
I can't even bring a good lvl 60 paladin to have to use any shields or special tricks before he kills me. I've dueled a couple, and its a total rape. I end up burning innervate before they're even at half mana. Mainly because my only hope is bear form, but they STILL hit hard forcing me to shift-heal-shift (900mana regrowth, 700mana shift: 1600mana a crack). Meanwhile bear does sad damage, they barely burn any mana, and before I know it im shift-healing yet again.
Pretty sure the only way a dru beats a pal is if the pal is noob. Same w dru vs shaman. Unless a sham doesn't understand what all of his skills do (purge, grounding totem, frost shock) the druid has no hope.
At least you can run from paladins. We can't run from sham :(
03-11-2005, 11:14 AM
Cool, thanks for the post. Sorry I misspelled your name Aitrus, was going off memory. Pretty much confirmed what I thought so I guess I'll quit pesting the paly's for awhile.
Your right though at least I can run. With 1 sec ghost wolf talent and shocks, your going nowhere. Shamens are definetly tough. I have one in the mid 20's. Started him to see if I could discover a weakness, but ended up really enjoying playing him because guess what, there are no weaknesses! I can kill an even level monster or NPC in about 10 to 15 secs. I can kill about 3 even levels mobs with the shaman in about the same time it would take me to kill one even level with my druid.
Shamans are so sick that yesterday I killed a an even level mage in the crossraods and the mage had somehow managed to get himself on top of a tent so I could not melee him at all. Simply healed through his assault, then waved, and blasted him till dead. Fairly pathetic really that a hybrid castor can win in a pure casting battle.
03-11-2005, 07:02 PM
Eh, shouldn't have any trouble owning hunters anyway. Just stay in their face and keep Rejuv, Abolish, and Moonfire running for the entire fight. Their pet is a joke, and travel form breaks clip, they don't have the tools to beat us at all.
03-11-2005, 07:50 PM
I have a feeling once the cat form changes go in, that druids will be able to kill other druids. Atm I have never lost to another druid in a duel.. one guy makes it close at least. Problem is, they always take 20 minutes at least... with cat form dps where it should be, I think the fight will be much faster.
03-12-2005, 07:57 PM
Druid will never beat another druid in forms simply thanks to hibernate. The new swiftshifting changes might actually allow us to beat pallies once and for all though.
03-12-2005, 09:28 PM
This is so weird. I've never had a problem beating palladins, but I can't for the life of me beat rogues or priests.
Priests I just don't think we can beat, honestly. I spend those fights feared in bear form or manaburned to death in caster form. I've had some good luck with charging back from a fear then bashing, shift+heal, but I don't think we have the tools to finish them. I tried rooting at max range, but with cleanse that doesn't work. Maybe catform will stand a chance once the DPS goes in if we start fights in stealth.
Palladins take a long time, but I tend to do very well against them. It just comes down to, basically, running them out of mana, which we have the tools to do with Bear form, bash+heal, swiftness heals, and innervate. Thing is, I have to put on AC and STA/SPI gear, but when equipped right I out AC pallys w/o shields, and I out DPS them when they do wear shields. Also, one trick is to move around a lot and use maul so that all your hits hit for that extra damage while they only hit for regular--sometimes you can even get them to waste a stun on you to keep you still.
Maybe this is just from duels, but don't run from them! Pally DPS isn't great and they usually save their stuns for when they need to heal, so save bash for when you need to heal. Standard bash and heal from both of you should tip the fight in your favor. Hit them with fairy fire too, makes em waste time if nothing else.
Now rogues. I don't know what to do in duels against these guys...out in the wilds if I get the jump on a horde rogue, I can take him or make him run at least. Fairy fire+root ftw. But in duels, I'll never start with fairy fire on the rogue. They always stealth before the battle and then get the first hit in. A good rogue can literally stun lock me--and the best will use that damn blind powder to fear me when I do get them caught.
I usually try to start out by hitting grasp,shifting to bear and letting the first volley root them. If they don't stun lock me, I move away, fairy fire, shift, bash, shift heal and hope that I can get root back on them. If I can get root back on them, then I've won. DD+root, til dead.
Thing is, the best rogues will hit me with blind powder as soon as I've rooted, vanish out of the root, and I'm back to being stunned to death. How are you all beating them? Are the rogues you're fighting not using blinding powder?
03-13-2005, 10:41 AM
Yeah i find priests very hard to be as well. Everything i have they dispell (rejuv regrowth motw innervate) and everything i do on them they dispell (tangle moonfire). The shield makes them invincible as i simply cant do enough damage to break through it. I never have time to cast wrath/starfire before i get interupted.
Cat form seems to be the only way to do damage, but with fear/mind flay/DoTs i take a lot of damage in cat form and find my self having to shift out to heal very early.
Bear form seems to be the best bet but, as i said before, the shield makes it almost useless.
I don't really get this "we need to root em"-logic. But I'm totally new to MMORPG and probably pretty sucky in PvP.
So.. you root em. Then what? Blast em with moonfire until they die? I tried that.. they don't.
And before you tell me I'm a retard that can't play the druid-class.. I'm aware of that. Please help me get better. :)
03-13-2005, 02:46 PM
Rooting the "bad guy" is a tried and true practice from EQ. Basically if you can root the guy away from you, then they will not be able to cause you any melee damage. If you have the case with a rogue, and you manage to root them and they do not dispell the root then the rogue's DPS just reached zero. It is easy to DoT them with moonfire and toss on some nukes.
Paladins do not have a range attack (except for EZ-Thro Dynamite or other engineering schematics if they are an engineer) so if you can root a pally you have effectively turned their DPS into zero.
Rooting somebody like a mage or warlock may be essentially worthless. They can still nuke you regardless of the root and the pet could be bashing away at you. Then for you to survive you would have to shift into bear and melee, which would defeat the purpose of rooting them to begin with.
So when it comes to rogues especially, you need to prevent them from moving around. A rogue running circles around you is a surefire way to get killed. Therefore rooting rogues is a "must do" type thing when we fight them.
Using root is just situational, like most things. I love using root during PvP battles because it seems like most people kind of freak out when they are rooted all of sudden and then my buddies can go and beat them down. However I hardly using root when I solo simply because it is pointless to waste mana on it if you are going to close in and do damage via bear form.
So if you are confused about this "we need to root em" logic then just think about if you need to stop your opponent from moving. If you need to immobilize them, then whip out the root. If you are going to engage them in melee then don't bother.
Thanks for a very informative post. :)
But rooting a rogue and blasting them with moonfire (yes I wait for the DoT to maximize the damage) doesn't seem to cut it. Not for me at least. And do you always have to be in bearform when you melee? I do much more damage when fighting melee in casterform.. and my omen of clarity is useless in bearform.
Sorry for my newbie posts. Hope you guys don't get to upset about them. :)
03-13-2005, 03:28 PM
Fighting Priests: Open the fight with Rejuv and then shapeshift to catform and run at him. From the getgo he will either start dotting you or start dispelling you. Either way, Rejuv will cancel out the dot or give him one extra buff slot that he has to dispell before getting to your buffs. If dueling, you may even consider casting Regrowth on yourself as well while the duel is counting down.
Once you get to the priest in catform, 90% of the time he will immediately fear you. While feared he will either continue to dot you, or continue to dispell you. Once fear is done, run back to the priest and melee him. While meleeing move in a circle around him and be sure to never stay still. Use claw, tiger fury, and if even our catform version of backstab if you can time your energy with your position well. The main idea is to keep moving and stay as close to him as possible. When you get low on hp (approx 20%) pop out, Nature's Swiftness, and Healing Touch all while still moving in circles. Moonfire and Fairy Fire him immediately after. If he's low on hp be sure to keep an eye out for his heal and a possible opportunity to War Stomp him to interrupt it followed by some Moonfire spam for the win.
If he survives your first catform/moonfire dps flurry, your next move will be to go bearform for surival purposes. His fear will most likely be up again by this time and he will use it to get you off him so he can either heal or start dotting. There is nothing you can do about this, but your additional HP in bearform will help somewhat with the dots. After fear is over, run back to him. Considering you've already used Nature's Swiftness to heal yourself by this point and possibly even War Stomp. You're last best bet at survivability that you can count on is your bearform bash + heal. Which is why at this point you are in bearform. If you're low on hp by the time the fear is over and he has finished dotting you, get back to him, stun him, and regrowth. It is best at this point not to use Healing Touch because if he's shadow than he will Mind Flay and possibly end the fight before your heal gets off. Regrowth however can be completely cast in the duration of even the most basic, talentless, bash we get.
With all your resources spent, from there on the fight is situational. Remember to always stay close to him and move in circles whenever possible. Depending where my mana is at this point I like to use a few finishers: A) If i'm completely OOM just meleeing and dancing around him popping him with moonfire as mana regenerates, B) Catform + rotation dps or C) If I have alot of mana I'll perform what I call the "Circle of Death" which is basically a moonfire spam while jumping in circles around the priest. The jumping part is not necessary but sure as hell makes it look cool.
The point of the circles around the priest is that it makes it very difficult to get spells off on you because you are constantly moving out of line of sight. Innervate whenever you need mana and hope to god it gets a few ticks in before he dispells it. Try to use it when he is healing or if possible if/when he runs out of mana. You should probably use it after getting feared for the second time, because his dispell is LoS and dancing around him may allow a few more ticks to get in before he shoots it. These things may help ensure Innervate lasts a little longer, but it will not gaurantee a full duration. Every little bit counts tho.
-Glyss 60 Tauren Druid
Black Blood Battalion - Medivh
03-13-2005, 03:42 PM
But rooting a rogue and blasting them with moonfire (yes I wait for the DoT to maximize the damage) doesn't seem to cut it. Not for me at least. And do you always have to be in bearform when you melee?
Everybody probably has their own little tactic, but what I do is hit them with Faerie Fire - a another must when fighting rogues - hit myself with Nature's grasp then hit them with root. After rooted I hit them with a moonfire and start chain nuking with wrath. After every other wrath, or whatever 'feels' right I hit them with a root again regardless if it is down or not.
Rinse and repeat. Tweak as needed.
Do not sit around and wait for moonfire to run it's course then apply another round of it. That will not work.
Now if a rogue gets the first attack off, you could be dead before you even realize what happened. Been there, done that and got the t-shirt.
I do much more damage when fighting melee in casterform.. and my omen of clarity is useless in bearform.
No, trust me you don't.
You may have some placebo thing going on, but there is basically no reason at all to fight melee style in caster form. I do occasionally when I solo just to get my weapon skills up or I will do so when in a group. However for any serious fight do not melee as a caster, do so in cat or bear.
You overall DPS in casterform may be higher if you are chain nuking, but it will not be if you are straight melee.
If you have been meleeing stuff while in casterform give bear a try. If you are fighting some MoB what I do, and I imagine most people, is to hit them with Moonfire, faerie fire, regrowth on myself (sometimes rejuv) and go into bear. I can just about guarantee that doing that will be much more efficient then straight up meleeing something as a caster.
03-14-2005, 08:43 AM
[QUOTE=silvernight]Palladins take a long time, but I tend to do very well against them. It just comes down to, basically, running them out of mana, which we have the tools to do with Bear form, bash+heal, swiftness heals, and innervate. Thing is, I have to put on AC and STA/SPI gear, but when equipped right I out AC pallys w/o shields, and I out DPS them when they do wear shields.
Quote didn't quite work like I wanted, see reply below.
03-14-2005, 08:51 AM
I would have to disagree that we generally have the tools to run a pally out of mana. They don't have to spend their mana on anything but heals since they're DPS is higher than ours.
However this may only apply to me in my int/spirit/stam heavy gear. I hate the idea of having to change armor for a fight but also I don't really duel much because i feel that dueling really negates our one big advantage over everybody which is our mobility. What this means is that when I run across a pally in the wild I'm not really packing a full set of strg/stam gear. However wearing such gear is probably the first suggestion I've heard that I really beleive might make the difference for a win. I imagine that pally's would be shocked by a bear with really high armor, hitpoints, and dps. Guess that would basically make a pally out of a druid!
03-14-2005, 10:40 AM
If you don't root a rogue and get away from him, you will be dead in seconds. Doesn't matter what form you use, their melee damage is so sick that you cannot go to to toe with them.
From my experiences, it seems that root breaks faster when you pour on the damage. Rapidly moonfiring a rooted rogue will have the root break faster, and then he will sprint to you and mess you up. Here's what I do when I have a rogue jump me:
If he opens with stun, you have to hit Nature's Grasp as SOON as you can. Once that happens and he gets rooted, fairie fire him while running away, then shift to travel form and get to a safe distance. Heal yourself fast if you need to, then re-root him. Use Starfire, root him again as SOON as starfire finishes, then Wrath + Moonfire and re-root immediately after. Back up more to get ore distance, and repeat.
If he's a smart rogue, he will blind you while rooted the first time to keep you close. If that's the case, either war stomp to get away or pray you have enough HP in bear form to bash him for 5 secs.
A solid rogue is VERY hard to beat if they get the jump on you.
03-14-2005, 11:23 AM
A solid rogue is VERY hard to beat if they get the jump on you.
Yep. If your walking through the woods singing "la la, la la la"
and a rogue hits you in the back, your likely toast. Don't beat yourself up about, thats what rogues do and that's about all they got. On the other hand if you see a rogue in the distance he's pretty much toast, little he can do about it.
Still, I feel we have the upper hand vs a rogue because if all you want to do is live you should be able to get away with NG and travel form. If you get a FF and root on a rogue from a distance when you fresh hp and mp he's pretty much done. I remember killing a lv 42 rogue when I was maybe 36 just cause I got the jump. He had no way of healing so I'd root and blast and FF. The best part is when he got on his horse to try and chase me down when I hit travel for some distance. I'd pop him with moonfire while he was casting then run while watching him in the rearview. As soon as he got off the horse it was root time. Fun, fun. Course I have to say he was probably the worst rogue ever!
03-14-2005, 02:55 PM
true, all a pally has to spend mana on is heals, but then in bear form all we have to spend mana on is heals too. So it comes down to who has the best ac/dps/mana-heal efficiency. Our heals (HT) are a bit more efficient, plus we usually have more mana. AC should be about the same (minus shield), DPS depends on equip for them but shouldn't be much more than bear form.
The main "tool" that I'm thinking of to "run them out of mana" is innervate. I'm also assuming that they won't use LoH against you, but if they do you can still take 2 out of 3 before it refreshes. With innervate, you'll get two mana bars to their one, so even if they melee better you should still be ok.
Just stay in bear form, bash and heal when needed, rinse, repeat.
And get some warbear armor, rar! (120 str, 190sta, 190int, 175 spi in my warbear gettup, and like 5500ac at 54).
03-14-2005, 04:07 PM
Yeah, I can see how you could stand a chance in that get-up. Like I said I'm heavy int/spirit like 195/205 I think. I know most people say spirit is junk but I still have a few lvs to put on so I think it's great to reduce downtime and it's really great with forms to. Regenning 60 plus mana per tick adds up quick in bear. My standard grind is to pull 2 to 3 even lv mobs FF,MF both then rejuv,regrowth, then bear, growl, and swipe, swipe, swipe. With thorns and swipe I can kill 2 to 3 mobs at time faster than taking them individually.
Now you got me thinking about that tactic except with 120str for some much needed dps and more armor. Looks like I'll be doing a little shopping tonight...damn...I hate shopping
03-22-2005, 10:59 AM
I'm only lvl 34 atm, and haven't pvp'd a whole lot, so please pardon my inexperience. It just seemed weird to me that people were talking about trying to use bear form/cat form, but not having the dps, and then talkin about using innervate. I am currently trying the feral combat thing despite people saying that it isn't viable at 60. (hopefully the patch will change this) It just seems weird to me that people post about running out of mana and not having the dps with shifting, when they're clearly not spec'd for feral combat. I don't pretend to be the best healer. I know I'm lacking in the healing field without NS and potentially Innervate. Wouldn't these tactics of using shapeshifting vs pallies work much better if spec'd for feral combat?
03-22-2005, 01:54 PM
Without a doubt some points in feral would help, but only if you could have those points while keeping your other goodies! Right now the meat of the restore tree is just more powerful than feral, but we'll see what today holds! If the cat form really rocks I could see going feral/balance for a "gasp", "high DPS end the fight quick style" instead of the "you can't kill me in less than 20 minutes style."
Personally though after the last patch that up'ed dire bear to 360% armor I started loving the bear and changed my spec toward getting the feral charge, basically giving up balance points. Even though I still have a point or two before I get the charge, I can already tell a difference in DPS with the reduced maul/swipe and extra crit percent. I think after I get charge I will be really happy with my druid in PvP, and let me just say, 400 crit followed by 400 crit in bear is a beautiful thing!
03-22-2005, 02:31 PM
A fight with a rogue will be strongly one-sided for either the druid or the rogue. It shouldn't ever be a close fight. If he gets in melee range and is able to hold melee range throughout the fight, the fight will almost always go to the rogue. If you are able to achieve 2 things on the rogue, Fairy Fire and distance, then the fight will almost certainly always go to you. If you're talking about duels, I like to Regrowth before the fight and go bearform to endure much of the rogues opening stun lock combos. Soon as I become unstunned I untransform and Nature's Grasp followed by Fairy Fire. He'll root himself and i'll get some range in the process. If he vanishs and breaks the root, I'll pop NS and instant root him. Once Range and Fairy Fire is achieved, all it is about is root and nuking. Game over rogue, he can't even touch you.
-Glyss 60 Tauren Druid
Black Blood Battalion - Medivh
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