View Full Forums : Battlegrounds: Feral and Balance


Badgemagus
06-07-2005, 03:42 PM
As we all know, the Feral tree needs more "punch". But I'm posting this because recently I've been hearing that a lot of Druids are dropping Feral all together in favor of a Rest/Balance build due to Battlegrounds.

Most of you who have PvP'd in Hillsbrad or The Barrens know that the majority of our damage output is via spamming moofire. But consider that this strategy is in a uncontrolled environment, of 50+ man battles often times. Now, with battlegrounds being a more controlled environment of 8-10+ man battles (depending on which area you fight in), will feral still a viable investment?

I personally like the 9/11/31 Build with Imp Bash and Feral Charge. In the great majority of my fights 1vs1, 2vs1, 2vs2 etc. feral charge has been a key part of my success. Stoping runners/kiting and canceling casting. But in mass PvP, I have found myself stealthing around with rogues, opening with Ravage and then shifting into caster to spam moonfire and keep everyone healed which is making me consider going Rest/Balance myself. But its hard for me to want to give up feral charge most of all which requires the 11 points in Feral. What are you guys going to be sporting for Battlegrounds?

Astrel
06-07-2005, 08:55 PM
Staying true to the Feral build. I know cookie cutters will always pop at the chance so there will be plenty to allow me to play my own way. With battlegrounds, comes a more controlled less lag infested environment in which to execute strategy. So the days of "OMG Moonfire spam werks" will be gone, with the exception of the occassional TM/SS battles and other raids. Druids won't need to Moonfire spam if they are in a well organized raid group going into the BG. You might find Druids, most specifically in CTF stealthed with a group rogues especially to get to that flag. Moonfire spam won't save you if something botches, but I know the AC of a Feral Druid in Bear will take a beating like no other unlike a Pure Caster Druid who probably thinks dropping into bear means he a suxxor Druid.



And uhh...Call me stupid, but I just noticed your location Bagdemagus....so...what city? Elmendorf AFB here :devil-lau

Kabaoum
06-07-2005, 10:43 PM
I know I won't be changing, as astrel stated it is a more controlled less laggy environment will make it easier to execute strategy and not just spam instants/dots. Also I don't see how going feral can do anything but help in a ctf style environment where speed/stealth will make a diff.

Ndainye
06-08-2005, 02:37 AM
Feral doesn't give a huge benefit to forms that's an illusion feral adds approximatly 10% damage to feral forms that's it. Thick hide adds a 2% bonus to AC in Feral which has nothing to do with the ability to reach high levels of AC while in forms.

I'm a restoration Druid that uses my feral forms wisely I'm no where near being suxxor'd when I drop into Bear.

And I'm not a cookie cutter, I'm not a healbot and I'm not a dr0od. Assigning labels and name calling within a class only weakens the class, it does nothing to promote. You won't get anything fixed in your pet spec by alienating others of your class, nor will you do much to promote the feral druid as a viable tank or damage dealer.

All that said I don't have any points in Feral and I don't see BG's changing that decision, as a raid druid in a well organized guild I rarely need to go bearform for anything other than the occsional offtanking. I spent this evening in Alterac behind enemy lines working sneak attacks or with our main push force healing mages and catching rogues.

Pick the spec you want use it wisely and to your advantage quit deriding others for the doing the same.

Vrax
06-08-2005, 02:57 AM
I'm a cookie cutter and proud of it :D I LOVE 9/11/31 as it fits my playstyle greatly. I would like to see the other trees get a little (well deserved) work. However, I just can't see how anything short of 31 in restoration will be viable for a "end-game raid guild" druid. Maybe I will be proven wrong. I can't say that it will hurt my feelings to be wrong this time.

Kabaoum
06-08-2005, 03:04 AM
Feral doesn't give a huge benefit to forms that's an illusion feral adds approximatly 10% damage to feral forms that's it.

when speaking in respect to the bottom half of the tree your 100% correct, however the crit bonus from sharpened claws, bear charge, improved stun, and several other talents help the forms in ways other than raw dps. I personally am going to go from 31 in feral to 21 in feral when I get high enough to do my planned 8/21/22 build. For my play style, the 21 points into feral are a must have bare minimum that allows me to still get nature's swiftness and swiftshifting out of the other trees.

Astrel
06-08-2005, 03:57 AM
I wasn't calling Restoration Druids cookie cutter. I was referring to what Bagdemagus said about people suddenly changing over to a Balance druid to Moonfire spam as a cookie cutting. I am Restoration myself primarily, with 32 in Restoration, and 18 in Feral. When I refer to the AC of Dire Bear Feral Druid being hard to kill I mean it. I carry two sets of armor. One for casting, one for Soloing, which is my Feral Gear (And for PvP.). A fully set up Feral Druid in Bear guaranteed will have atleast 2k more armor in Dire Bear than a Restoration a Balance Druid. They willl also have much more Atk Power, and a higher DMG Negation (With my Feral gear I am currently at a 57% DMG negation.). A smart Feral Druid properly equipped is a very capable Tank in respects to Warriors and Paladins. A smart Feral Druid will also be just as capable in other aspects as the next Restoration druid. I am well aware of the fact that increased armor from the Talent tree is hardly plausible, but factor in things like the Ring of Protection, Warden Staff, and Cloak of Warding, items which a Restoration, or Balance Druid wouldn't have/wear, you can see where a Feral will definately outclass a Restoration or Balance in terms of AC in Bear Form.

Again I wasn't taking a whack at Restoration Druids, as myself am Primarily that, I was speaking in terms of cookie cutter talent distribution for Balance to moonfire spam in battlegrounds.

Ghost Bear
06-08-2005, 05:37 AM
As tactics get more organized I actually think balance will become more viable. Everyone says hurricane sucks, and currently in its use it does fall short. But what needs to be noted is that simply dishing straight damage isn't always going to win. As mass pvp gets more organised (which up to this point in WOW has been a total mess) I can see a good use in a balance druid waiting for melees to lock heads, then unloading hurricane onto the enemy melee. The trick would be to keep the enemy grouped tightly. Also a human would need to be in proximity to try and detect those rogues which are sure a gaurantee to be coming for all casters.

In other games I always played mages and hybrids. In pvp, one realization has always seemed to prove itself; crowd control>damage. In WoW it can be seen in a rogue sapping an enemy to even a 2v1 fight. Or it used to be a druid/mage perma snarring a melee then killing them without retribution.

An example from another game, Lineage, the Spellsinger won most fights. Its the fastest mage with the best crowd control. They weren't the strongest dps wise, but they could sleep enemies better (AoE sleep) and faster. They could slow your running (which all nukers could do).

This is why I think balance will become a more useful build. Hurricane doesn't do the damage of mage AoE's but it has that slow effect which will give the front-liners an upper hand. Of course changes wont happen anytime soon. Because non druids are too resistant of idea of any druid without innervate.

I'm not saying balance is going to be magically cured. It seriously needs help from the devs. But its not completely useless either. Just no one has tried to seriously find its place. Which I think is in its name, to balance things, even the odds a bit.

This is what I'd like to see happen anyways and why I think it can work. Most druids will still stay with Restoration simply because its easier to flow with as its whats expected and less money costly since you wont have to keep respeccing back for pve. I still plan to stay with my feral build, its never let me down yet.

That's just me, I was always the one to play stuff that others shunned at. I don't like going with the flow. That and the other trees just aren't fun to me. I'll reroll a rogue before I respec, I just have more fun with Feral. Most anyone who parties with me welcomes me back anyways since I have up til now pulled my weight nicely with Feral. That and I'm lucky enough to be in a guild with plenty of priests and restoration druids so its not really necessary of me. My guild is really supportive of me being feral.

Badgemagus
06-08-2005, 01:38 PM
And uhh...Call me stupid, but I just noticed your location Bagdemagus....so...what city? Elmendorf AFB here :devil-lau

Dude, I live five minutes away from base! We def need to hook up. No laughing at me though, Im just a big nerd. :P OMG, my GF is going to HATE you. She hates everything WoW because "it takes my attention away from her". ROFL

Anyway, I did BG last night and I was pleased with it as well as my build. I wont be respecing to Rest/Balance. I found myself using bear form a great deal. My feral charge is really awesome for stopping the flag runners as well as stopping the healers from doing their job. So IMO, the 9/11/31 build is still the ownage!

Falloraan
06-08-2005, 03:37 PM
A fully set up Feral Druid in Bear guaranteed will have atleast 2k more armor in Dire Bear than a Restoration a Balance Druid.
...........
but factor in things like the Ring of Protection, Warden Staff, and Cloak of Warding, items which a Restoration, or Balance Druid wouldn't have/wear, you can see where a Feral will definately outclass a Restoration or Balance in terms of AC in Bear Form.

I'm restoration specced who doesn't carry a seperate set of feral gear, and I almost hit 10k AC, so not sure what you are talking about here. All those items you list I wear, and guess what? Yep, I'm still restoration specced...

Mazikeen
06-08-2005, 04:36 PM
a lot of good points here, all said, I've played em all, and as such am currently leveling another druid so I can play more of the feral tree I enjoyed but left behind for the end game. Not so much for dps, as I really can't say I ever saw a huge increase, or loss that is in my dps when I final specced resto.

And in that same comment, I don't lose to often to other druids regardless of the spec based solely on equipment. There is one cenarion on my server who I keep working with, but can't drop( I have yet to land any cenarion). It's a long battle, and I don't know his build, however, overall, he just outclasses me with equipment not the build. Any feral druid (and I know this thread is not built on pvp against other druids, but I find many similarities in my short time in BG and general pvp) who would wish to challenge my toon would find their dps sorely lacking in regards to my feral equipments mana, thus they lose in regards to the mana war required to outlive an opponent. The small surviveability aspects built into the feral tree IMO did nothing for me.

What I miss is my claws with their crit rate increase ( I like to see the big numbers floating up my screen, they did not mean much to me in a long battle though) my improved bash, my feral charge, and my improved bear rejuv. I look forward to getting my other druid to dire bear form and gearing up for some nice charges again :)

I'll also say, I don't think any other class can have as much fun end game as the druid myself. Many of my guild are somewhat bored and work on their alts the majority of the time except when there is a planned MC run, or a need to bring out their mains for a BRD run and such. I play my 60 nearly all the time and am over 25 levels below their alts which were started at the same time :) becuase there is "always" something for a resto druid with the right gear to do in the end game. From playing feral before, I don't think I would have the diversity to play the end game I'm enjoying if I had left any more points in feral than I did.

Edit, btw, I failed to mention, my guild is very happy I prefer to play my level 60 druid most of the time. None of their mains is capable of dragging 4 of their lowbies through instances like a druid can. Not even an end game specced/geared warrior can handle 5-10 mobs of the 40 levels chewing on them for any period of time. LOL, the highlight of my druid career? hearing my guild primary tank, whose alt is a paladin I was carebearing through RFD for plate say, "My Go* look at the surviveability of the freakin druid." We had lost the entire 4 man party at the quest at the end of the instance do to a low level mistake. I ended up with the brunt of the battle, with more adds coming. After nearly 6 minutes, as my pally was watching and said he was about to rez out on the timer, I finally dropped the last npc and was able to rez him :)

Ndainye
06-08-2005, 05:05 PM
Astrel -
I appoligize for taking your post the wrong way. I spend too much time on the Blizzard forums where the tossing around labels is the prefered method of bashing anyone that doesn't agree with someones view of the druid class.

Astrel
06-08-2005, 05:11 PM
I know what you mean. I don't go to the Druid forums on the Official site because all the majority of posters do there is complain, rather than try and accomplish anything or figure a work around. =D

Kabaoum
06-10-2005, 03:11 AM
/agree with you astrel, I like these forums much much more :D

goa
06-13-2005, 11:49 AM
Druids are good flagrunners. :D

Badgemagus
06-13-2005, 12:49 PM
ROFL

Kabaoum
06-13-2005, 11:01 PM
druids are crazy flagrunners >< shifting out of slow/imobilizing effects + a nice speed boost from travel/cat dash. On top of it all we can heal ourselves >< and drop into bearform to take all sorts of abuse as we try to escape.

goa
06-13-2005, 11:20 PM
druids are crazy flagrunners >< shifting out of slow/imobilizing effects + a nice speed boost from travel/cat dash. On top of it all we can heal ourselves >< and drop into bearform to take all sorts of abuse as we try to escape.

Theres nothing more fun than having 5 rogues hammering you as you try to escape from the flagroom in bearform just to see two (or more) dr00ds healing or bashing. :)

Ya ok.. they can catch you if you dash.. But what good is a dashing desperate rogue to a heavy armor dr00d? :)

fourpaws
06-29-2005, 06:53 PM
I use to be 9/11/31 and then decided I would test a feral build in AV. I havent looked back.... ever. now im 8/33/10 and I dont even miss NS (wich I swore I would never give up full time). I LOVE improved stealth for hunting rogues. Top half of the tree is very very mediocre, but then again I dont miss reflection in the slightest either or innervate or imp MotW when fighting priests (damn that purge macro).

What is interesting is that with 9/11/31 I could cream certain classes and go down like a sack of potatoes against others, now there is a shift in wich classes I own or get owned by.

Kabaoum
06-29-2005, 08:05 PM
I've tried the 9/11/31 build too, I thought it was a bit lackluster. I just can't stand not havin my feral skills, I agree the bottom of the tree leaves much to be desired but the top is just loaded with great stuff. I'm 8/38/5 atm and I'm still debating on wether or not a 9/21/21 build would be worth it or not.

Kow
06-30-2005, 05:23 PM
While playing in AV, I went full balance specced just to try it out. Other than some cool 600+ damage crits on moonfire spam, it was a waste of my 20g to respec. I ended up switching back to mainly restro, with just enough bear for charge. And it still seems to work for me.



Anchorage FTW (Boniface and Tudor here).
-Kow, Lightning's Blade

Milhouse
06-30-2005, 05:52 PM
The test servers are open again. If you want to play with your talent tree, copy your character over there and respec until you're out of cash. It's only the test server, so it's free. Heck if you've got a few good friends, have everyone lend you their money before you do it to make even more bank. Just be sure to give the money back ;)